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 Post subject: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC*** VIDEOS NOW UP ***
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:33 pm 
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Brace yourselves for my greatest magic creation ever! I present the petaminx of magics, the GRAND MASTER MAGIC. It uses a whopping 100 tiles and solves from a 50x2 to a 10x10 grid. It took hours of prototyping, designing, and mistakes trying to find a managable solution where the puzzle wouldn't implode on itself in midsolve, but I finally found one the can easily be done with two people (or one very determined person like me!) The length of the puzzle in the starting state is 8' 9" (2.667M).

Some may have seen the prototype video I put on youtube earlier seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms6UhSMMeRA

This is what that prototype was for.

The Auction is here:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18248

Here are the solution videos!!!
Solve: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb1LyNybYnk
Unsolve: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fErX2_Xyauo
Fast Motion Solve & Unsolve: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuXLEY2njkk


Attachments:
File comment: The starting state is so large that I could not fit it well in one picture!!!
Front Right.JPG
Front Right.JPG [ 345.19 KiB | Viewed 5424 times ]
Front Left.JPG
Front Left.JPG [ 473.35 KiB | Viewed 5424 times ]
File comment: For size reference, the puzzle in the middle is the mammoth master magic
Max Square.JPG
Max Square.JPG [ 616.65 KiB | Viewed 5424 times ]
Solve Angle 1.JPG
Solve Angle 1.JPG [ 594.86 KiB | Viewed 5424 times ]
Solve Angle 2.JPG
Solve Angle 2.JPG [ 574.39 KiB | Viewed 5424 times ]

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Last edited by kloopstomp on Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:36 pm 
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You, Oskar, and Drewseph need to stop breaking physi-

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:40 pm 
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:shock:
That is insane... I didn't think you would actually do anything with that!
Very nice! I look forward to seeing the solve video!

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:57 pm 
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Oh dear. I cannot even begin to fathom the stringing pattern. What is the total length of the strings that you used to create this?

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:57 pm 
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The solved position is so beautiful, I can't get over it. :shock:
Amazing work, I would never have that kind of patience, I haven't even bothered restringing my currently unstrung 1x8!
oh, one question, how do you get the inserts so professional? glossy printing?


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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:01 pm 
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THAT IS INSANE!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:06 pm 
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Jesus Christ! I can feel the gravitational pull from here!

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:07 pm 
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quicksolver wrote:
Oh dear. I cannot even begin to fathom the stringing pattern. What is the total length of the strings that you used to create this?


Well considering each string loop uses about 18 inches of string, it uses a total of 3,600 inches or 300ft (The length of an american football field!)

ENCuber wrote:
one question, how do you get the inserts so professional? glossy printing?


The combo of photoshop, double-sided printing, and brochure paper does wonders! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:27 pm 
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THAT IS INSANE!!!! What's next one that can wrap arround the world? Sheesh!

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:54 pm 
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kuBer wrote:
THAT IS INSANE!!!! What's next one that can wrap arround the world? Sheesh!

With that thing, we could literally go into space with Magic.

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:01 pm 
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Rentlix wrote:
kuBer wrote:
THAT IS INSANE!!!! What's next one that can wrap arround the world? Sheesh!

With that thing, we could literally go into space with Magic.


Funny you should mention that! You can't see it from the pictures, but the black backround has stars to give it a spacelike appearance :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:23 pm 
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You win

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:30 pm 
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I had another genius idea. How about you make Magics based off of the MTG trading cards.

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:31 pm 
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Seriously, you had better stop right there. Why would you want to do anything better than this? It's just simply awesome!

-π (Eitan)

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:11 am 
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I love the look of the 10x10 solution. I'd love to have this puzzle. I've always had a idea of Rubiks Tangle in a 10x10 (work like a normal Rubiks Tangle)like in the 4th picture from the bottum.

http://www.jaapsch.net/puzzles/tangle.htm

The other solution a 4x4x4 cube with 4 pieces left over for a stand.

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:27 am 
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It really shock me ! I only imagine to make about 64pcs of them


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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:32 am 
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that is epic even if i knew how to solve it it would take me an hour to flip the tile lol

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:37 am 
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Can it change shape into 3d positions?

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:39 am 
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LOL that is lovely with wonderful colors!

Thank God I do not need to make an extension for my theory for this!!!
The classification type is M(100,0,0).

;)


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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:35 am 
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That's incredible!

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:31 am 
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Ok Now serously, how are you going to have fun with this if you ca't play with it on a simple table, IT WON'T EVEN FIT :shock: :shock: :lol:

Incredible!!!

:D Greg :D

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:37 am 
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I'm completely speechless. This is just incredible! I especially like the colors, they very vibrant, and almost resemble colors seen in fireworks, in my opinion. Very well done. Also, I too would love seeing a solve video of that beast :lol: Have you ever tried it before?


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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:32 am 
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I'll come back here once I've bought and figured out a regular magic, this just confuses me.

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:48 am 
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OH NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! WAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!

We don't need another Oskar destroying the universe!

Oh, and by the way, stringing that thing should actually be pretty easy. It's getting the strings and time that's the problem.

Now where was I? Oh, yeah:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO<SNIP – Please don't stretch the forum like that!>OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

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Last edited by Sandy on Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
What can be expressed with 129 O's that can't be expressed with 128?


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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:59 am 
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It's so... big! The solve state is very attractive as well... wow...

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:16 am 
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post a video of the transformation please!!! :)


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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:44 am 
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PuzzleMaster6262 wrote:
Can it change shape into 3d positions?

Technically it could, but as mentioned in this thread by by Pantazis, viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6507&hilit=memory+cube+magic, a puzzle of this size would become a "cubersome dinosaur" to get into the shape you wanted it to. The solution I made is about as managable as a puzzle of this size can be while still presenting a challenge to the solver.

Katten wrote:
Also, I too would love seeing a solve video of that beast :lol: Have you ever tried it before?

Derek Bosch wrote:
post a video of the transformation please!!! :)

Like I said in my original post, I have a solve video in the works right now, but it will be a little while longer so I can get a good place to shoot it and get another person who will solve it with me. As for if I have tried solving it before, of corse I have! How else would I have taken a picture of the solved state :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:52 am 
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kloopstomp wrote:
As for if I have tried solving it before, of corse I have! How else would I have taken a picture of the solved state
I just reckoned that you built it into a solved state, and then scrambled it afterwards. As I can imagine that most puzzle builders don't build their puzzles into an unsolved state. At least I wouldn't. But then again, I don't know that much about how a Magic works and even less about how to make one, so maybe my question sounded a little stupid.


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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:00 pm 
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Katten wrote:
kloopstomp wrote:
As for if I have tried solving it before, of corse I have! How else would I have taken a picture of the solved state
I just reckoned that you built it into a solved state, and then scrambled it afterwards. As I can imagine that most puzzle builders don't build their puzzles into an unsolved state. At least I wouldn't. But then again, I don't know that much about how a Magic works and even less about how to make one, so maybe my question sounded a little stupid.

Fair enough :wink: I'll explain how the process of building this puzzle went. Obviously you start with the idea. I had to decide what I wanted the start to be like and what I wanted the finish to be like. Then I created a prototype without any inserts in it, and then I numbered every tile from 1 to 100. Using that prototype I spent hour after hour trying to find a good solution for the puzzle. When I finally found a solution I liked (which took FOREVER!), I kept track of all the tile numbers and their orientations. From there I designed the actual inserts. I used photoshop to create the pictures for the start and solved state. Once I made the start and solved states I used the orientation patterns I got from the prototype to arrange the tiles into templates that I could easily print out and produce quality inserts. After the tiles were printed out I then assembled the puzzle into the starting state (because it has the most simple stinging pattern) and then I had a finished product!

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:44 pm 
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I'd bet it's pretty confusing knowing which fronts match which backs.

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:57 pm 
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I am nothing short of impressed.

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:56 pm 
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Thank you, Kloompstomp, for creating one of the largest puzzles in existence. This blows everything else you've ever done out of the water.

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:49 pm 
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Kapusta wrote:
Thank you, Kloompstomp, for creating one of the largest puzzles in existence. This blows everything else you've ever done out of the water.

Is this 2nd to only Tony Fisher's Really REALLY Big Cube?

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:09 am 
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kloopstomp wrote:
Katten wrote:
kloopstomp wrote:
As for if I have tried solving it before, of corse I have! How else would I have taken a picture of the solved state
I just reckoned that you built it into a solved state, and then scrambled it afterwards. As I can imagine that most puzzle builders don't build their puzzles into an unsolved state. At least I wouldn't. But then again, I don't know that much about how a Magic works and even less about how to make one, so maybe my question sounded a little stupid.

Fair enough :wink: I'll explain how the process of building this puzzle went. Obviously you start with the idea. I had to decide what I wanted the start to be like and what I wanted the finish to be like. Then I created a prototype without any inserts in it, and then I numbered every tile from 1 to 100. Using that prototype I spent hour after hour trying to find a good solution for the puzzle. When I finally found a solution I liked (which took FOREVER!), I kept track of all the tile numbers and their orientations. From there I designed the actual inserts. I used photoshop to create the pictures for the start and solved state. Once I made the start and solved states I used the orientation patterns I got from the prototype to arrange the tiles into templates that I could easily print out and produce quality inserts. After the tiles were printed out I then assembled the puzzle into the starting state (because it has the most simple stinging pattern) and then I had a finished product!


Finding a solution for puzzles like my music magic or some of Pantazis' magics that aren't flat is very difficult. If you don't even know the shapes it can make, it takes a ton of experimentation (and re-stringing when you get it stuck)
I can imagine that solving this when you know the solution will take a while... making up a solution must have taken a LONG time!

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:53 pm 
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The Game. You sir, have won it.

That is just incredible, I am literally speechless.


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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:01 pm 
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Move over Pantazis there's a new magic God that just took over.

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:16 pm 
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:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
.......I can't say anything...oh what the heck, I only say nothing when there's nothing nice to say...

HOLY CRAP THAT'S AMAZING! I WANT THAT SO BAD!

Sorry for the over-enthusiasm, just...this is the biggest twistypuzzle I've ever seen!

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:26 pm 
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Darren Grewe wrote:
Move over Pantazis there's a new magic God that just took over.


Sacrilege! Do not summon the Gods... the consequences could be disastrous!!! LOL

Kidding aside, I thought you had already fallen off the chair more than three years ago! ;)
Guy Harris presented a 128-tile magic back in 1987:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-44eXeI83I

Attachment:
128_tile_01.jpg
128_tile_01.jpg [ 21.39 KiB | Viewed 4716 times ]

Attachment:
128_tile_02.jpg
128_tile_02.jpg [ 17.61 KiB | Viewed 4716 times ]

Attachment:
128_tile_03.jpg
128_tile_03.jpg [ 18.79 KiB | Viewed 4716 times ]



To add to what Steveo said, magics which are larger than 16-18 tiles, require similar handling
to solve, but I admit, they are mighty tedious and they *do* look impressive. It is well known that
smaller magics are not only more robust, but the restriction of their movement (which does not happen
with the long ones) allows to create many mechanically different types which require different solutions.

My past suggestion(s) had been be to try some new types of magic, it is still an area with many things to discover!
And as I stated before, "it is easy to understand that there is still a lot of potential for making magics. "
e.g. there is no 13-tile magic yet, while many types are not made yet! For example many types M(x,y,z)
where y and z are not zero. More details here.

But if I had to choose, between Guy's and kloopstomp's, I would prefer kloopstomp's magic,
as it is has more vibrant colors and has that "celebration galaxy" look. Plus, I am not sure if Guy
built it by himself... was Travis involved too?

One thing is for sure, I would certainly be very very proud if I had made a 100-tile magic by myself!
It requires a tremendous amount of work and a lot of inspiration!

:)


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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:57 pm 
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DragonCuber wrote:
The Game. You sir, have won it.

That is just incredible, I am literally speechless.


Yet he lost at the same time.

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:09 am 
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Jorbs3210 wrote:
Yet he lost at the same time.



I don't think he lost anything here. He is certainly the person who made the largest magic
and who is still active. Secondly, kloopstomp's magic is more beautiful than the other one
(in my opinion).

Finally, anyone who has done a 16-tile or bigger magic, is surely capable of making
other magics which can be as large as possible. The only issue is how much time someone
is prepared to spend on a project like this. When I did the Memory Cube, I only wanted to
combine two magical themes, the cube and the twin towers, in a non-flat way, and had searched
the dimensions (54-tiles) to ensure they were consistent. Flat magics require much easier themes,
and I found out about that while doing the odd-numbered ones and the triangular ones.

It is not fair to say that "someone has lost". Myself, I am very impressed by the theme and the vibrant
colors of this enormous magic presented by kloopstomp. And I hope others can also follow by example,
and why not, make new types! (On a side-note, I have already made some new types, which are even
more complex than the old ones - and I am not talking about the hexagonal ones!).

Moreover, the magic presented in the video was disassembled by Guy (if I remember well) and all
the tiles were sold, or used for something else.

Please allow me to again express my admiration to the Grand Master Magic, the largest magic currently
in existence! With his current experience, I am sure kloopstomp can even make a 500-tile, so in the end
of day, it is his own choice if he wants to beat some more records or not.

For me, he is one of the biggest winners in this forum.

;)


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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:26 pm 
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kastellorizo wrote:
Jorbs3210 wrote:
Yet he lost at the same time.

I don't think he lost anything here. He is certainly the person...

I believe Jorbs3210 was talking about this game. I doubt he meant any offence.

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:04 pm 
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Rentlix wrote:
I believe Jorbs3210 was talking about this game. I doubt he meant any offence.


Oooooh! My bad. I had absolutely no idea about this game! LOL

:lol:


Pantazis

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:33 pm 
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kastellorizo wrote:
To add to what Steveo said, magics which are larger than 16-18 tiles, require similar handling
to solve, but I admit, they are mighty tedious and they *do* look impressive.
Of course, the most impressive magics have tiles that aren't squares. :D

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC***
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:13 pm 
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Pantazis, I am flattered you would come to my defense!!!:oops: :lol: Another difference I would like to point out between my magic and Guy's magic is that the solution I made for it is loaded with every parody I could think of! When that magic is in one state, almost no tiles are matched up on the other side (thanks to loads of planning and calculations!) I wanted to create a very large magic, but I also wanted to make sure it was still a useable puzzle that had a worthwhile solution and not just a novelty puzzle. Also, I should have the video up by tomorrow!

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC*** VIDEOS NOW UP
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:22 am 
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Here are the videos. Enjoy!

Solve: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb1LyNybYnk
Unsolve: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fErX2_Xyauo
Fast Motion Solve & Unsolve: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuXLEY2njkk

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC*** VIDEOS NOW UP ***
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:56 pm 
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Why don't you make another magic that doesn't start or end with a n-by-2 state?

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC*** VIDEOS NOW UP ***
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:25 pm 
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Jorbs3210 wrote:
Why don't you make another magic that doesn't start or end with a n-by-2 state?


viewtopic.php?f=15&p=223790#p223790
There. Happy? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: ***GRAND MASTER MAGIC*** VIDEOS NOW UP ***
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:02 pm 
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I just wanted to say that I don't get excited about magics but that is very impressive, great work!


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