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 Post subject: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:02 pm 
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Essentially a Rua with all pieces exposed, this puzzle is jumbleable (spelling?). I am still looking for a name so please pitch some.

I designed this to fit type A screws but honestly have no idea if it will work. At around 200 dollars, it is not too bad for a full print.

It is slightly pillowed to fit the mechanism I had, but it is not needed. It took the price off so i like it, if you don't, I don't want to hear it.

I managed to somewhat apply the V mech on this puzzle but still do not know if it will work.

If you buy this and it does not work IT IS NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY.

PURCHASE AT YOUR OWN RISK.



Picture:
Image




Shapeways:

Core- http://www.shapeways.com/model/63173/ftrd_core.html

Half of full Print - http://www.shapeways.com/model/62773/ha ... herdr.html

I am quite sure I am the first to create this puzzles. If not please contact me.


If you make one, I expect a cheap offer :D

Edit:
The cube is the size of a standard 3x3x3
Image

I want to upload a pillowed RH Dodecahedron sldprt for everyone. It is not letting me upload the .rar though. Any tips?

NVM I got it. Just replace .txt with .rar.



Edit 2: Here are the STL's for a bigger puzzle. The corner now has a stem of about 3.8 not 1.8.

This is just under the size of a V7.


Number of Pieces:
Core - 1
Center/Cap - 12
4Fold Corner - 6
3Fold Corner - 8
Edge - 24
Triangle - 24


Attachments:
Mesh Lab Fixed.rar.txt [1.12 MiB]
Downloaded 136 times
File comment: Rename it to .rar
Original STL's.rar.txt [1.06 MiB]
Downloaded 132 times
Pillowed Rh Dodecahedron.txt [148.19 KiB]
Downloaded 168 times

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Last edited by MaxXimum13 on Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:47 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodechedron
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:08 pm 
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i would like to build this
but i would like to cover for the cost it would take
to build it. do i have permission to auction 1?

also of course you (the designer) would get one for a cheap price :D :D

-Clay

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodechedron
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:11 pm 
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If you feel comfortable with the design, PLEASE buy and auction it.

I really wanted someone to buy it. I put it up so everyone has a chance for the puzzle. If it suits you better I could put masters up.

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodechedron
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:16 pm 
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Looks very elegant. Pillowing is also a great workaround to avoid crazy mechanisms :wink: . Unfortunately for my version I couldn't figure out how to pillow a RD so I had to settle for crazy mechanisms :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodechedron
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:28 pm 
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My method of pillowing is probably SO inefficient but it works.

I make a dome and rotate a surface-plane around it to define the cuts. The end can be rotated onto each face and combined.

Image


I then delete that garbage away and am left with

Image

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodechedron
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:06 am 
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Why oh why do I always wait to post these things?!

Just today I finished making this puzzle!

Image

I'm just waiting for the rest of the vinyl sheets to arrive. I'm probably going to make a second one and sell it.

-π (Eitan)

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodechedron
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:40 am 
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pirsquared wrote:
Just today I finished making this puzzle!


Wow! I had no idea Shapeways was that fast. :-)

Great design. Great build.

Thomas

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodechedron
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:27 am 
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Awesome!!! Does this puzzle jumble like the Crazy comet???
I really would love to own a puzzle that jumbles.

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodechedron
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:20 am 
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Can you give us a choice to only buy masters? :? 'Cause not everyone have that money to print the whole thing... :(

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodechedron
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:38 am 
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pirsquared wrote:
Just today I finished making this puzzle!

[img]SANY0540.jpg[/img]


Do you mind making a video of it :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodechedron
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:46 am 
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Hugo Mak wrote:
Can you give us a choice to only buy masters? :? 'Cause not everyone have that money to print the whole thing... :(


I totally agree, I am tight on money as well, so I would love for masters to be available if its not much trouble for the designer.

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodechedron
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:57 am 
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The rhombic dodecahedron is my favourite shape of all time. I once grew some protein crystals for X-ray diffraction, and they had this shape.

But this looks even better with the slight pillowing! In fact if you take the Boolean intersection of 3 orthogonal cylinders (which I did by accident recently while trying to make a 3x3 core in SolidWorks LOL), you get pretty much the same thing... :D

I even thought about applying Drew's 3x3 cutting planes to this shape when I created it, but I had other things on my mind and then my SolidWorks license expired. :(

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodechedron
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:19 am 
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This is such a nice puzzle.
What I like is that its Half Turn.

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodechedron
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:39 am 
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Thomas wrote:

Wow! I had no idea Shapeways was that fast. :-)

Great design. Great build.

Thomas


This isn't shapeways! I had the masters printed more than a week ago on my university's FDM printer. This is actually my second time casting this puzzle, since I over-sanded on the first one.

RFP wrote:
Do you mind making a video of it :roll:


I'll post a video once I have all the stickers. In the meantime, here's a pic of it jumbling.

Image

Kelvin Stott wrote:
In fact if you take the Boolean intersection of 3 orthogonal cylinders (which I did by accident recently while trying to make a 3x3 core in SolidWorks LOL), you get pretty much the same thing...

I even thought about applying Drew's 3x3 cutting planes to this shape when I created it, but I had other things on my mind and then my SolidWorks license expired.


I'm definitely going to try this shape next! (If you don't mind, of course.)

Sorry to hijack your thread, MaxXimum13!

-π (Eitan)

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodechedron
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:41 am 
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pirsquared wrote:
Kelvin Stott wrote:
In fact if you take the Boolean intersection of 3 orthogonal cylinders (which I did by accident recently while trying to make a 3x3 core in SolidWorks LOL), you get pretty much the same thing...

I even thought about applying Drew's 3x3 cutting planes to this shape when I created it, but I had other things on my mind and then my SolidWorks license expired.

I'm definitely going to try this shape next! (If you don't mind, of course.)

No problem at all, in fact I was hoping somebody would try it, I remember it looks beautiful... :D

Perhaps intersecting cylinders could also be an easy way to create other pillowed shapes, like a normal dodecahedron...

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Last edited by KelvinS on Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodechedron
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:42 am 
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Oh, and I suggest: "Ruanation" as the name. (as in, ruination) :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodechedron
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:34 pm 
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I look forward to seeing a video of the physical version Eitain. I wish it was my design haha.


Thank you Aleh for showing me this
http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopi ... decahedron

Apparently a 180 turn version was designed before. It's design is quite different, so I am not taking mine down until he contacts me back stating to do so. I will then use my judgment to determine what to do. I really feel mine is different enough to not have to take it down NOW.

Edit: I have his blessings :D

I will get masters up in a moment. I suggest NOT getting SLS for them, but most know that already.

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodechedron
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:25 pm 
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MaxXimum13 wrote:

I will get masters up in a moment. I suggest NOT getting SLS for them, but most know that already.


Hey am definitely going to build this puzzle, but I'm still a cautious about getting the half-print without it being tested. Will the masters be up soon or have you decided not to do masters? Sorry if im being impatient I just really want to build this! :D

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:36 pm 
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how do I replace .txt with .rar? I tried renaming it, saving it as .txt etc... but I can't figure it out.

Please help, I may be able to completely 3d print this if I can get the file onto my computer correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:15 am 
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Well the .txt file is for the shape only, not the puzzle at all. Renaming it should work but you may have to go to your computer settings to show file extensions.


If you want to 3D print it, go to Shapeways.

Core- http://www.shapeways.com/model/63173/ftrd_core.html

Half of full Print - http://www.shapeways.com/model/62773/ha ... herdr.html

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:12 am 
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is there any way you could give me the stls?
Or is that even possible from shapeways? :roll:

I don't have enough money for shapeways, but I have a 3d printer at my school and I've always wanted a rhombic dodecahedron...

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:10 pm 
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I am REALLY trying to get the masters up. Shapeways is insisting that they have non manifold edges. I know that this is wrong because the only difference between the half print and the masters is the lack of linear pattern.

I understand people have to be cautious to buy the half print. Hopefully masters will not cost to much, it has fairly small pieces.

I think posting the stl's here are the best alternative. I will have them up in about ten minutes.

Edit: There up

Edit 2: Taking them down. I will remake it more stable.

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Last edited by MaxXimum13 on Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodechedron
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:17 pm 
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Kuhrik wrote:
Hugo Mak wrote:
Can you give us a choice to only buy masters? :? 'Cause not everyone have that money to print the whole thing... :(


I totally agree, I am tight on money as well, so I would love for masters to be available if its not much trouble for the designer.


tight on money since you just sold your icosaminx? :wink: REALLY tight on money is the fact that i cant afford to do a single whole mod :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:14 pm 
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ugh *headache* where are the computer options to allow file extensions?

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:40 pm 
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According to Google -

For XP:
Double Click on My Computer.
Click on Tools > Folder Options... in the menus.
Click on the View tab.
Remove the check from Hide extensions for known file types.
Click the OK button.
(I have XP so I know this works)


For Vista:
Open a folder or open explorer
Click the Layout button (to the left of the Views button) as shown in the picture below
Click Folder Options
Click the View tab
Uncheck Hide extensions for known file types


For Mac:
Go to the Finder by clicking on the desktop.
In the Finder menu, select Preferences...
In the pop up menu that appears, click on the icon that says Advanced.
Click on the checkbox that says "Show all file extensions."
File extensions will now be revealed in the Finder.

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:59 pm 
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MaxXimum13 wrote:
According to Google -

For XP:
Double Click on My Computer.
Click on Tools > Folder Options... in the menus.
Click on the View tab.
Remove the check from Hide extensions for known file types.
Click the OK button.
(I have XP so I know this works)


For Vista:
Open a folder or open explorer
Click the Layout button (to the left of the Views button) as shown in the picture below
Click Folder Options
Click the View tab
Uncheck Hide extensions for known file types


For Mac:
Go to the Finder by clicking on the desktop.
In the Finder menu, select Preferences...
In the pop up menu that appears, click on the icon that says Advanced.
Click on the checkbox that says "Show all file extensions."
File extensions will now be revealed in the Finder.

How do you do it for Windows 7?

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:16 pm 
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Whoops forgot about 7; it is pretty exactly the same way as vista and XP:

Open Windows Explorer, you can do this by opening up any folder or you can just click Start > User Name.

Click “Organize”, scroll down and click “Folder and search options”.

Click the “View” tab. Scroll down until you see “Hide extensions for known file types”, un-check this line here by clicking on the check box.

Click “OK” and now your file extensions will now longer be hidden.

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:20 pm 
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MaxXimum13 wrote:
For Mac:
Go to the Finder by clicking on the desktop.
In the Finder menu, select Preferences...
In the pop up menu that appears, click on the icon that says Advanced.
Click on the checkbox that says "Show all file extensions."
File extensions will now be revealed in the Finder.



You don't need to apply it for all. Simply left click the file, click 'get more information', then uncheck the 'hide file extension' box.

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:27 pm 
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Of course Mac has an easy solution haha. As I said I only have XP so I just did what google told me.

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:21 pm 
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Sweet! I got it! Thanks a bunch maxx!!

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:52 pm 
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Since a few people are actually interested, I'll post some more mech pics and an example jumble (It is only 4 turns.)


Attachments:
FTRD3.JPG
FTRD3.JPG [ 37.07 KiB | Viewed 5160 times ]
FTRD J.JPG
FTRD J.JPG [ 13.79 KiB | Viewed 6354 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:35 pm 
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is this in essence a helicopter cube in rhombic dodecahedron form or is it quite a bit different?

Also, during jumbling does it act super bandaged like the helicopter cube does or does it still have a wide range of movement?

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:45 pm 
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The jumbling is (almost?) identical to the HC but it is not the rhombic dodecahedron form of one, it's a little more complicated. I imagine that this is a big reason that the HC was made first.

A pillowed cube with identical cuts yeilds
http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/App ... exa_e4.htm

I posted the design of one a little bit ago and since greatly improved the puzzle.


Edit:
Here is a side-by-side view of the spheres. The FTRD is cut in a way that leads to the small "+" shape with the 4 fold corners and the star shape that surrounds it. These small pieces are the hardest to deal with.

Edit 2: I have the design for the cubic version if you want to look into it.


Attachments:
Comp Sphere.JPG
Comp Sphere.JPG [ 36.09 KiB | Viewed 5158 times ]

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Last edited by MaxXimum13 on Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:58 pm 
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It's very similar to a helicopter cube, but I see some definite differences... the cubic version should be made next, then we'd have the hexaminx and rhombahedron! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:39 pm 
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Those corners look really, really thin. The puzzle in general looks unstable. Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable printing it :? .

If you can find a way, you should also make the "feet" bigger or try a spherical mechanism.

Good luck! This is a trick puzzle indeed!

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:51 pm 
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I wouldn't be willing to look into it, but I think the RD Cube would be a very cool puzzle...

How certain are you that the mechanism will work? I may only be able to get a single puzzle printed at my school, and if it doesn't work, It would be a shame to have a bunch of unusable plastic parts.

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:05 am 
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The smallest part of the corner is 1.869mm across. TomZ made a 1x2x3 with 1 mm walls. I know this is VERY different, his being hollow and mine having small pieces, but it is possible to be sturdy and thin.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15182&hilit=1x2x3

Again that was SLS and nylon is quite strong. The mech is untested and I would like to think it works, but it may not be worth wasting such an awesome opportunity as you have. I really do not see how it can fail except, as Garrett said, the corners are really, really thin. I do think this is sort of an illusion because it is next to large ones.

I am sadly unable to say this HAS to work; i am uncomfortable giving a percentage on how well it will work. I would hate to not give it enough credit and no one wants to take the risk, but at the same time would hate to create false hope saying it will definitely work.

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Last edited by MaxXimum13 on Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:11 am 
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Would enlarging the puzzle slightly fix this problem or would that take alot of work?

It sounds to me like you are fairly certain of it working, and I think that 3d printed parts are fairly strong, plus I have no intention of speedsolving or overabusing this puzzle.

Overall, I think I'll print it if it is 1.8 mm, because I know for a fact 1.8 mm ABS plastic would be sturdy enough, so SLS couldn't be much worse.

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:24 am 
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I could enlarge it but to make the 1.8mm to 2mm I think it would cost 1.35 more, to make it 3mm it would cost about 4.63 more so it adds up quickly.

Then again, this puzzle's hardest obstacle is making the center fit any screw. A bigger puzzle would allow more room to create a bigger corner. I do not see myself doing a total redesign that will essential make a usable, yet slightly fragile puzzle more staple, yet bigger and more expensive.

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:28 am 
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1.35, like $1.35 more? that's no too much...

but yes, I think 1.8 mm should be fine, so as long as the mechanism itself is functional, it should work.

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:31 am 
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1.3 TIMES
So a $100-$130 for about .2mm
That's why making it 3mm is ridiculous. $100-$463 for 1.2mm

Don't ask what it takes to make it 5mm

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:11 am 
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MaxXimum13 wrote:
1.3 TIMES
So a $100-$130 for about .2mm
That's why making it 3mm is ridiculous. $100-$463 for 1.2mm

Don't ask what it takes to make it 5mm


Id be happy to pay a little more for a more stable mechanism unless some tests it soon. I just made a good sale of my rhombic triacontahedron so I may be the idiot :D or brave guy to test it. I only plan to get a half print in transparent detail which I heard is like polyjet. Then I plan to cast the rest of the puzzles. Does any one know how strong polyjet masters are?

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:12 am 
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how many of each part is needed? My school has never 3d printed a puzzle before at needs to know.

Edit: Also: total number of parts??

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:16 am 
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I'm basing this on my Helicopter Cube v1 which had a very thin corner and broke often. If I remember correctly, it used a slightly larger area (1.8mm i think) but the corners were constantly breaking. I can't measure to be sure, but my memory is pretty good. The first batch of 3D printed parts (one set of Invision HR and one set of FDM) were broken on arrival. My second version had about 4.5mm across and it was much more stable, in fact no corners ever broke. It's a bit of a toss-up for SLS though. I certainly wouldn't recommend trying to cast one of these, but a full SLS print may be OK.

So I see a few choices. You can go with a layered mechanism, like the Rua/Toru/24 Cube for ultimate durability while being far more complex. You can make the puzzle more pillowed, or you can make it larger. Any one of these will help stability and durability but those upsides have considerable downsides attached.

Once again, good luck :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:21 am 
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Of these, I'd prefer the larger idea... after looking at it, and you saying it's the size of a 3x3x3, I'm almost scared of it being uncomfortably small...

I think the perfect size rhombic dodeca would have cubies the size of 3x3 cubies, but I would never hope for such a thing, as it would make it so much more expensive...

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:58 am 
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Even though I showed you can make a 20mm cube with 1mm walls, that doesn't mean you can make a corner stem that is 1.8mm across (PS: giving that many digits is just weird). The strength of a part is dependent on its geometry, and making a corner stem that small is not a very good idea.
The dimensions you gave give me a (not even) 4mm square cross-section, which is way below my comfort limits. It might still work, but I don't think you need to go that thin in this case anyway. Also, there's not that much holding it in place.

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:21 pm 
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does the design allow the Type A springs + washers as well..?

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:12 pm 
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I like this puzzle it looks like a really good challange nice idea for as puzzle


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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:00 pm 
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elijah wrote:
does the design allow the Type A springs + washers as well..?


Yup, I wanted to have springs so it could be more forgiving.

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 Post subject: Re: New Puzzle Design - FT Rhombic Dodecahedron
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:16 am 
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Okay, well maxx, I'm going to try to get this 3d printed tommorow, but the stl's, when loaded on minimagics, they just kinda clumped together and didn't connect to eachother like they should, plus the center cap said it had an error.

Edit: the core's also not included in the STL's... I guess I'll have to buy it off shapeways... :(

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