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 Post subject: Re: 9*9*9
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:07 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
luke1984 wrote:
I would like to say I have some moral objections to a chinese company stealing Mr. Verdes' patents, but not because the law says it's wrong. The government is NOT a moral authority. Some people give "it's wrong 'cause it's illegal" as an argument, I think that's unintelligable. Law does not dictate morality.


Yes. I tend not to mug old ladies since it is wrong, not because it is illegal.



Whats wrong with mugging old ladies? I like giving mugs to old ladies.

and even though law doesn't always equil morals, Laws are usually what is moral in that societies eyes since laws are meant to keep order and keep with the, well I can't really say this any other way, morals of society.


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 Post subject: Re: 9*9*9
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:01 pm 
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This is a thread translated into English from the website that is shown in the picture:

[removed]

It's from a couple of weeks ago, I think the guy who is manufacturing the 9x9 is called [removed]. Looks as if a couple people on the forum are quite interested in buying them from him...


Last edited by sausage on Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sources removed


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 Post subject: Re: 9*9*9
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:07 pm 
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Please note as a reminder to everyone, that information that leads to sources, manufacturers, makers, links, anything that can assist in locating Knock-off products violates our policy.

Please take care what information you post regarding knock off products.

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 Post subject: Re: 9*9*9
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:18 am 
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This whole situation is going to become a real pain. Obviously the Verdes family are the victims but this community is going to suffer as well. Thinking ahead a few months, lets say the fakes are out and selling well. There is however no sign of the genuine product. So anyone here who admits to buying a fake I assume will be frowned upon. Youtube and other places however will be rife with discussions and videos showing this puzzle. We, the true fans will have to keep quiet and virtually act like they don't exist. No mods, no new collection photos, no sharing of that minute when we first get the parcel, etc etc.

Mr. Verdes,
Please can we have a statement about the release of genuine 9x9x9s? We love your puzzles and most of us would prefer to wait. However waiting will be so much easier if we can see a light at the end of the tunnel.

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 Post subject: Re: 9*9*9
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:41 am 
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Well said, it's easier to stay loyal when you have a stronger connection, and that means at least some dialogue and transparency to manage our expectations.

Let's hope Mr. Verdes can keep the flame of passion burning with a message to his biggest fans...

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 Post subject: Re: 9*9*9
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:08 am 
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Last February, I was asked to represent the voice of the V-Cubes in this forum. I promise the next time
I will chat with Konstantinos, I will ask him this question. I agree it is of big importance.

When I asked him a few months ago, he told me there were no near-future plans though.


Pantazis

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 Post subject: Re: 9*9*9
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:29 am 
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kastellorizo wrote:
Last February, I was asked to represent the voice of the V-Cubes in this forum. I promise the next time
I will chat with Konstantinos, I will ask him this question. I agree it is of big importance.

When I asked him a few months ago, he told me there were no near-future plans though.


Pantazis

Hi Pantazis,

Next time you see him may be too late, he may not even be aware of this discussion. It also shows the importance of maintaining DIRECT dialogue with one's customers, especially in the internet age, when customers talk with each other at the speed of light. Can you send him the link to this thread directly?

Thanks, K.

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 Post subject: Re: 9*9*9
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:38 am 
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He knows the 9x9x9 is being developed :wink:

Let's hope he can do something about it.

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 Post subject: Re: 9*9*9
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:04 am 
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katsmom wrote:
He knows the 9x9x9 is being developed :wink:

Let's hope he can do something about it.

I know he knows this, but does he know that many of us want to know if and when he plans to make his own "original" 9x9x9?

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 Post subject: Re: 9*9*9
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:35 am 
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Kelvin Stott wrote:
katsmom wrote:
He knows the 9x9x9 is being developed :wink:

Let's hope he can do something about it.

I know he knows this, but does he know that many of us want to know if and when he plans to make his own "original" 9x9x9?



Yes he does, he knows that since 2003!!! (until the 11x11x11 LOL)

It all comes to the company's policy and/or they can afford to do further developments.
People (knowingly or unknowingly) buying the fake 6x6x6s and 7x7x7s may have already
caused some big damages. I am sure he would be the first person who would want to release
all those puzzles as soon as possible.

I promised to give an answer soon, but if their company has not planned to do it, what *we*
want is irrelevant, because we are too few to support the demand needed to keep V-Cubes viable.
I am not sure if November will be the time, it may or it may not. We are both busy living in
different timezones, and I have scheduled a call next week (plus, I have recently changed
phone company and am still waiting for the SIM card!!! - I increased my international calls cap LOL).

And Kelvin, I agree with your point regarding the marketing of the 9x9x9 in another thread.
So maybe things are not that bad. And trust me, Verdes is aware of more things than we all are.

;)


Pantazis

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 Post subject: Re: 9*9*9
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:01 am 
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Thanks for clarifying, Pantazis, this all makes sense.

Just one point that many people may not be not aware of, is that patents (which are effective limited monopolies awarded by governments in return for disclosing inventions), or individual claims, can be legally revoked if the owner does not show due effort to commercialize their invention. This is to ensure healthy competition as well as innovation within the economy. I just hope, therefore, that Mr. Verdes can maintain his privileged position...

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 Post subject: Re: 9*9*9
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:12 am 
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Kelvin Stott wrote:
Thanks for clarifying, Pantazis, this all makes sense.

Just one point that many people may not be not aware of is that patents (which are effective limited monopolies awarded by governments in return for disclosing inventions) or individual claims can be legally revoked if the owner does not show due effort to commercialize their invention. This is to ensure healthy competition as well as innovation within the economy. I just hope, therefore, that Mr. Verdes can maintain his privileged position...



The legal statement you said is very true. But this an extremely far cry from this case, and probably for the case
for all existing puzzles, where finding distributors requires more than simple efforts.
(I can give you a painfully long list - for a collector like me - of puzzles waiting for distributors!)

:)


Pantazis

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 Post subject: Re: 9*9*9
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:10 pm 
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Good point, although no distributor will take on a product that hasn't even been made yet, let alone one which has not yet had any sales (distributors are some of the most risk averse people around). Perhaps Sandy selling some of the new and original puzzles on this website will really help inventors like us establish a market to get the distributors interested... Otherwise we can't expect them to come knocking on our door.

Anyway, back on topic, I think Verdes should somehow react now if he ever wants to make the puzzle in the future, even if just to put out a statement saying what his intentions are in light of the knock off.

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 Post subject: Re: 9*9*9
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:49 pm 
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I think I know what Mr.Verdes is doing. The KO 9x9s have not been commercially released yet, and I think that's because Verdes has not released his version. As stated in some previous threads there's a kind of "sheep-effect" with KOs to the actual genuine company.
The KO company are now rethinking producing the 9x9 I would guess because it involves risk since Verdes has not produced his and therefore not held up the green flag.
I think if Verdes waits till November on the down low the knockoffs may not produce their 9x9 for a few more months or not at all. Then when the October laws take place and soon after November comes, Verdes can releas his 8x8 and 9x9 and reap all the rewards with no competition for the profit of his product.

That's just my guess of what's going on. :wink: I think it'd be a bad idea for Verdes to produce the 8x8 and 9x9 before November.

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 Post subject: Re: 9*9*9
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:54 pm 
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Kelvin Stott wrote:
Good point, although no distributor will take on a product that hasn't even been made yet, let alone one which has not yet had any sales (distributors are some of the most risk averse people around). Perhaps Sandy selling some of the new and original puzzles on this website will really help inventors like us establish a market to get the distributors interested... Otherwise we can't expect them to come knocking on our door.

Anyway, back on topic, I think Verdes should somehow react now if he ever wants to make the puzzle in the future, even if just to put out a statement saying what his intentions are in light of the knock off.



I meant that if there is no demand, why would something be produced?

And why would the patent owner have the patent removed when there is no demand?
(actually, I find this very misleading and encouraging to any copycat reading this. The invoking issue
is something that to my knowledge, has never happened to any puzzle, so mentioning it, only serves
for the wrong reason - unless of course, there is a counterexample, is there?)

I am sure all of us would love to have a 9x9x9, but how many are actually willing to buy one?
(anyone can have opinions, but sadly, none of them are the ones with the funding)

Even the Chinese think twice before releasing it (hence the "delay").

Please do not make it sound easy to mass produce a puzzle of that magnitude. It is not.
And even for a long term plan, it is extremely difficult to predict that it is worth producing it.

As I said, we have all our opinions, but neither you nor me are the actual V-Cubes manufacturers.
If I call, I will ask about certain succinct things, nothing less, nothing more.

And hopefully we can let this topic die (or make it private). It is not helping to keep it alive in public.


Pantazis

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 Post subject: Re: 9*9*9
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:07 pm 
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I didn't mean to undermine your point, rather just add to it, in fact I agree with everything that has been said. In particular I agree that only Verdes knows the real situation and what his intentions are, hence I was also agreeing with Tony that it would be good if Verdes could let us know, if only to stop all this pointless speculation from everyone, myself included! :D

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 Post subject: Re: 9*9*9
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:12 pm 
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Kelvin Stott wrote:
I didn't mean to undermine your point, rather just add to it, in fact I agree with everything that has been said. In particular I agree that only Verdes knows the real situation and what his intentions are, hence I was also agreeing with Tony that it would be good if Verdes could let us know, if only to stop all this pointless speculation from everyone, myself included! :D



ok ok, just give me one week, I should have some answers.

;)


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 Post subject: Re: 9*9*9
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:02 pm 
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kastellorizo wrote:
Kelvin Stott wrote:
I didn't mean to undermine your point, rather just add to it, in fact I agree with everything that has been said. In particular I agree that only Verdes knows the real situation and what his intentions are, hence I was also agreeing with Tony that it would be good if Verdes could let us know, if only to stop all this pointless speculation from everyone, myself included! :D



ok ok, just give me one week, I should have some answers.

;)


Pantazis


Is that a gigaminx release date week or an actual week? :D

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 Post subject: Re: 9*9*9
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:17 pm 
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EMarx wrote:
Is that a gigaminx release date week or an actual week? :D



It will be a 6x6x6 first release date week (i.e. five years).

;)


Pantazis



PS. Just kidding LOL

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 Post subject: Re: 9*9*9(edited)
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:16 am 
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here's another link to show the law of the froum MF8
http://bbs.mf8.com.cn/forumdisplay.php?fid=53


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 Post subject: Re: 9*9*9(edited)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:21 pm 
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This is encouraging to see their forum rules. Though in practice, their policies will no doubt differ from ours, I am sure mf8 allows sources to be published of the manufacturer.

I hope I am wrong, and that they are adopting the same outlook as us.

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