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 Post subject: slide cube
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:21 pm 
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I was playing with my padlock puzzle last night and got to thinking about something. Has there ever been a cube made with sliding tiles on it? Something simmilar to a cubic 15 puzzle but with colors?

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:19 pm 
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Closest thing I can think of would be the missing link, or the whip-it.
Never seen a cube like that.


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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:22 pm 
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I was wondering if it would be possible. Is there a type of plastic that is pliable enough to slide over edges?

I know Tony is going to come on and say build it! :lol: :lol: Hmmmm...........

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:33 pm 
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I've been searching Google Patents for the past hour looking for what you're describing. I'm almost certain I've seen something very similar there before. I'll find it eventually.......or someone else will.


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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:38 pm 
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Vazdez cubes, I-cube, magic jack all come close, but I'm thinking more along the lines of a 15 puzzle glued on each of the sides.

If you do find a patent, please post it it would be interesting to look at.

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:44 pm 
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I have a Vazdez cube, it's an internal slider cube. I thought you meant tiles that slide on the outside. I can't think of a way to make tiles go around edges and corners tho.


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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:52 pm 
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Cube Puzzle with Moving Faces

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4872682.PN.&OS=PN/4872682&RS=PN/4872682

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Last edited by Georges on Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:00 am 
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Thanks Georges, I knew I wasn't that clever. Why don't the pictures on the patent site show up for me? Is it a program I am missing?

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:12 am 
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I am also missing a plugin to view the pictures.
I must look into this tonight.

Image

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Last edited by Georges on Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:18 am 
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I read something about a TIFF reader. I know what that is because of scanning documents, and they usually open on my computer.

Thanks for the image. That isn't what I was thinking, although it is pretty neat looking.

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:21 am 
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what were you thinking?

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:24 am 
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I have downloaded such a Tiff viewer, it works only (this one) for IE, I had to register, which I did.
I am now able to download the images.
Here are the first ones,

http://helm.lu/cube/slide/

I must go to work now.

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:30 am 
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something along the lines of a cube that can still rotate with a cage built onto the top, but with tiles that can slide around both the faces, and over the edge so that it can be a 53 piece slide puzzle.

Thanks George. You are great as always.

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:45 am 
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The Bolaris gets close enough to your idea,
and its curved pieces allow smooth movement
without any bending.

http://www.bolaris.fi/fi/english.php

:)


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Last edited by kastellorizo on Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:49 am 
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The postman hasn't delivered mine yet. Maybe later this week.

If I knew the first thing about making molds, I might try something. Right now I'm sorely tempted to play with some toothpicks. :lol: :lol: But the flexible plastic has me stumped. I do have a fairly flexible plastic box my name cards came in....I wonder?

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:15 pm 
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Unbelievable :shock:
This night I've thought at this lol :)

This would be a nice puzzle :)

,Nikola

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:37 pm 
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All hail Google!

http://www.google.com/patents?id=BEo7AA ... ving+faces

Now you can download the PDF for your wish list library.

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:43 pm 
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sounds like a good idea.

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:09 pm 
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So there's a patent, but has it ever been produced? Does this thing exist in the real world? If it does I'd love to see it!

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:46 am 
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Georges wrote:

Image


That's the one I was referring to. Thanks Georges. I was starting to think I imagined it.


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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:28 am 
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Hi :-)

At first i thought, oh what a cool but dull easy puzzle.

Then i had second thoughts. By using supercube algorithms and sliding of the tiles. Every tile can be randomly rotated. This adds much complication to the actual solving :D

Per

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:15 pm 
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Would it be possible to make one like this with edges and corners curved (with curved groove as well) such that the tiles could slide along the surface of the cube, from one face to another (kind of like in the program Gliding Cube, but using the empty space instead)? This could be made into colored shepherd's variant as well, adding rotational difficulties!

Now my brain's going berserk with sliding/twisting combinations. Neon + Pyraminx... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:25 pm 
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Fractangle wrote:
Would it be possible to make one like this with edges and corners curved (with curved groove as well) such that the tiles could slide along the surface of the cube, from one face to another (kind of like in the program Gliding Cube, but using the empty space instead)?


That is what I was trying to describe in the first place. Not this single sided-6 slide puzzles on a cube! Someone else understands! Woo Hoo!

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:59 pm 
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katsmom wrote:
Fractangle wrote:
Would it be possible to make one like this with edges and corners curved (with curved groove as well) such that the tiles could slide along the surface of the cube, from one face to another (kind of like in the program Gliding Cube, but using the empty space instead)?


That is what I was trying to describe in the first place. Not this single sided-6 slide puzzles on a cube! Someone else understands! Woo Hoo!


I've actually experimented with sliding things in cubies like this before, though the slider tracks were much more limited, and didn't go from one face to the other. The main problem that I've encountered is that when the cube itself is in mid-turn, the pieces can fall out. I suppose one could work around this by making the entire puzzle spherical, or at least severely pillowed, but that wouldn't be as aesthetically pleasing. Hopefully I'll take some pictures of my experiment and post them soon, to show what I mean.

As to resolving this problem, I thought about adjusting the depth of the slider tracks, but on a 3x3x3, they'd have to be awfully deep inside the cubies, I'm afraid the outer pieces that hold the moving tiles on would be too fragile. It would probably work just fine on a 2x2x2, but the 3x3x3 is so... classic!

I've got a feeling that there's some ridiculously obvious solution to this, but I just can't seem to find it.

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:22 pm 
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Ok, here are the pics:

Image
Image
Image
Image

Sorry if the huge resolution on the last picture was a problem; I wanted to make it more visible that the nail can come completely out at this rotation.

If the head of the nail took up the entire tunnel, it wouldn't be able to fall out, since there would be a little tiny edge that caught. However, it wouldn't be possible to have another one coming out of the right-hand side of that cubie since the outermost part of the corner would then be completely detached from the cubie.

I'm really tired right now, I hope this makes sense! :)

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:10 pm 
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I know exactly what you're talking about as I had evisioned this sort of puzzle months ago. But I had never thought about the possibility of the corner piece coming undone. Maybe if the cuts were made shallow or the tongue of the sliding tile was slightly off center, so the track for the pieces to slide on could be too!

And Correct me if I'm wrong, but this kind of puzzle would mean that there would be one less tile than there are stickers on a normal 3x3, right? That way the pieces have room to slide.

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:09 pm 
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bdizzle1391 wrote:
And Correct me if I'm wrong, but this kind of puzzle would mean that there would be one less tile than there are stickers on a normal 3x3, right? That way the pieces have room to slide.


It depends. It would be much easier to play with if it were built that way, though having to remember which color has one less sticker could be annoying.

Also, if the puzzle is built properly, there could be enough curve to the "cube edges" (the actual edges of the cube, not the type of cubie) so that the tiles could slide in a complete loop, without having to have an empty space, kind of like the Astrolabacus or the Hungarian Rings. The main downside to doing it this way is that the middle layers would be thinner than the outer layers, which means one would have to either:

1) Pillow it - doesn't look ideal on a 3x3x3 puzzle that was envisioned without pillowing

OR

2) Have uneven layers - doesn't look very good. Pillowing can hide this, but there are still problems as mentioned above

As I was typing #2 above, I got an idea. It would be really hard to pull off, but could be amazing. What if each sticker piece (consisting of outer tile and shaft) had a shaft that could extend and contract, and would be held in by a spring? This way, the shaft could stretch as the tile passes over a *square* corner, meaning no "cube edge" rounding needed! It would be a LOT of springs and moving parts and such, but if the pieces-falling-out problem could be worked around, it would make for a very fun puzzle!

About the pieces-falling-out overhang problem, I'm still (mostly) lost. :|

If the puzzle were spherical, or at least severely pillowed, the tiles wouldn't fall out, but I think the idea here was to have a *cubic* puzzle that did this. I'll keep thinking on this, and if I figure something out, I'll post back! I would really like to see this puzzle come to life! :)

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:28 pm 
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I've mentioned my list of things to do a lot lately, the version from the patent is one of the founding members of it. From a time when I thought I could do anything, when I first saw an image from the patent at twistymegasite. I had a plan, no idea what it was or if it would have worked. Like I said, I thought I could do anything. (And I actually accomplished next to nothing.)

This is probably the least efficient way to go about it, but if you had the pieces each click into place, then the only way a sliding piece could fall out is if someone intentionally tried to get it out. Then you wouldn't need to worry about pieces falling out mid turn/

I've been trying to figure out a way to have pieces slide over edges -as suggested here- off and on for years. I have a couple of ideas that I need to check out, but I am not all that confident in them. If someone does come up with a design please share it with the rest of us as I'd love to see it.


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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:36 pm 
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So, let me get this straight - you're basically suggesting a cubic bolaris?
ok - guess it isn't the same as my idea.
But if you need anyone to bounce ideas off of let me know.

I agree, I would also like to see this puzzle come to life! :D

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:26 am 
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bdizzle1391 wrote:
So, let me get this straight - you're basically suggesting a cubic bolaris?


There is no such thing as a Cubic Bolaris. But there's the Cubedron...!
(which is basically the same puzzle with a different mechanism)

;)


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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:54 pm 
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right, but this puzzle almost seems to be the what a cubic bolaris would look and function like.

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:31 pm 
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I am sure I saw some computer animation or something recently of a virtual cube with colours sliding over edges. Pretty sure it was on twisty somewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:26 pm 
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O.K. Here's my 2 cents on this project.

I have been going over possible ways to fix it so that the pieces don't fall out mid turn, the same problem you seem to be having. I really don't see a way to recess the sliding gaps far enough into the cube so they don't completely open mid-turn, it would have too thin of walls. However, I think I came up with a reason why it doesn't actually matter that the gaps completely open for the pieces to fall out.

I don't have pictures, so try to visualize this with me here, I'll do my best to describe it:

Each "tile" that will slide amongst the cube will have a little ball on the bottom of it that slides in the track, I'm assuming that's how you would have done it as well. Now, this ball, will be in the exact center of the tile, so you have a half tile width on either side of the ball. What you have to worry about falling out of the track is the ball, not the tile itself, and before the ball can get to that end of the track on mid-turns, half of the width of the tile has to go past the gap itself. That much of the tile isn't going to get by while you are turning a layer, at least not without breaking because you don't notice it has slid that far and just kept turning the layer.

I say continue building it the way you currently are and don't worry that the hole becomes completely open while turning a side, it shouldn't matter.


This is just another puzzle that is getting me side-tracked from the ones I planned on making originally, hah.

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:45 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
I am sure I saw some computer animation or something recently of a virtual cube with colours sliding over edges. Pretty sure it was on twisty somewhere.

Yeah... the glide cube computer program. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:01 pm 
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I am now attempting to make this puzzle as well. It has actually been bumped up to a puzzle that is currently under production. I plan on 3D printing the pieces for 2 reasons. 1) I don't have a cube I want to cut up to mod, and 2) I get cheap 3D printing so overall it will cost me the same as a Rubik's Cube to make this, hopefully.

I CADed the edge and corner pieces in about 15 minutes. The center piece needs to take some thought, but the tiles that slide from piece to piece are a very simple design and I will finish those in 5 minutes. If the center piece doesn't take me too long to figure out, I could have this thing assembled next week, pending my Alumilite shipment.

I would like to call this puzzle "53 Cube" basing it off of the name for the "15 puzzle" which the design is based off of. And to Fractangle, I hope you don't mind that I took up this project as well. Seeing as you actually started to build it first, if you want to keep calling it Slide Cube, I would be more than happy to adopt that name for mine as well. Also, keep in mind that I have no intentions of selling this when I do complete it, so if you did, don't worry, you don't have competition by me.

[edit] Here's a small assembly of the edge and corner pieces. Still haven't thought out how to fix the center piece problem, but I'm getting there.
Attachment:
slide_assembled.jpg
slide_assembled.jpg [ 146.12 KiB | Viewed 5859 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:27 pm 
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the rubiks brain racker..has nobody heard of this puzzle?
http://www.puzzlemaster.ca/zoom.php?id=910&PHPSESSID=ae3cfb02ab43702d8

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:57 pm 
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As far as I can tell, your center pieces should just be a cross section.

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:06 pm 
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The problem I am having with the center pieces is that if I were to cut out the trenches the same way I have on all the other pieces, it would split the cap in 4 pieces which wouldn't stay in the center piece. I thought about designing the center piece to be closer to the core, leaving enough room for the cap to be as thick as it needs to be to allow these trenches to be cut into it, but doing that doesn't allow the screws enough room.

I may have come up with a solution, albeit a very odd one, that makes it so this cube wouldn't need screws or springs. I really don't know if I am going to try to put that mech on this cube, or into any cube any time soon, but it's an interesting one, I'll divulge more later once I think it through more.

Here's a picture of a to-scale drawing of a Rubik's cube center with the trenches cut out. As you can see, there isn't much room to cut for a cap and leave space for the screw.


Attachments:
slide_center.jpg
slide_center.jpg [ 124.53 KiB | Viewed 5833 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:02 pm 
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GarrettDickerson wrote:
And to Fractangle, I hope you don't mind that I took up this project as well. Seeing as you actually started to build it first, if you want to keep calling it Slide Cube, I would be more than happy to adopt that name for mine as well. Also, keep in mind that I have no intentions of selling this when I do complete it, so if you did, don't worry, you don't have competition by me.


I didn't really start building it, those pictures were of a mod that I'm working on that uses some pieces that slide in grooves, but nothing like the 53 puzzle/slide cube. As to the name, I think whomever builds it first should name it! :)

GarrettDickerson wrote:
Here's a picture of a to-scale drawing of a Rubik's cube center with the trenches cut out. As you can see, there isn't much room to cut for a cap and leave space for the screw.


What if, instead of using a cap, you had a hole for the screw just under the intersection of the two tracks? You could countersink it so that the screw wouldn't get in the way of the tiles.

Also, another random thought that I haven't really investigated much: What if the underlying cube used the v-cube mechanism? Would there be any clear advantages/disadvantages to this?

I'm very excited that this puzzle could "happen" soon! :D :D :D

P.S. 53 is my favorite prime number. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:11 pm 
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The gap at the intersection is smaller than the head of a screw. I had thought about that originally, then tried to see if the gap could be made large enough to allow the screw to get through. It couldn't.

Right now I'm thinking of an easier solution than my way of getting around needing a screw. I might be able to make the cap and leave a hole in the center from the bottom so it doesn't get in the way of the sliding pieces. If I calculated it right, the screw comes up only a little bit into the groove, when I gave the sliding pieces some leeway.

Now that I have the design almost fixed, I need to worry about how I am going to mold and cast these things. They have these trenches that explode out when they get below the surface of the face and they are in every dimension. I may need to use a 3 Piece mold to make these.

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:20 pm 
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I've looked at your .jpg files, and I'm not sure how the tiles would be able to slide around the sides. You don't seem to have left room for this. Or are you designing this to slide only on one side each. So kind of like an 8 tile slide puzzle on each side? If you put grooves in to slide the tiles over hte edges, would it make the cube too fragile to hold together?
And instead of using a standard sized 3x3 for this, what about one of the larger ones. (I'm thinking about the ones that have the tiles at 1" square) That might solve the problem of the center screw.

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:50 pm 
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katsmom wrote:
I've looked at your .jpg files, and I'm not sure how the tiles would be able to slide around the sides. You don't seem to have left room for this. Or are you designing this to slide only on one side each. So kind of like an 8 tile slide puzzle on each side? If you put grooves in to slide the tiles over hte edges, would it make the cube too fragile to hold together?

I think he is envisioning a puzzle that doesn't slide over edges, and only one side will have 8 tiles. This way there will be 53 tiles altogether; thus the name cube 53.

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:10 pm 
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What I am envisioning is a fully funtioning 3x3 that has grooves on its faces that allow for 9 tiles that are able to move around within each face except one face will only have 8 tiles. This way, you can scramble the cube and at the same time can scramble the tiles on the face that only has 8 tiles.

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:16 pm 
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couldn't you still solve this puzzle like a regular rubik's cube if you wanted to? Do the tiles really add to the challenge of the puzzle?

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:19 pm 
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elijah516 wrote:
couldn't you still solve this puzzle like a regular rubik's cube if you wanted to? Do the tiles really add to the challenge of the puzzle?

Well you could have an edge piece with 2 blues

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:14 am 
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Here, I'll try to put it this way.

Picture the cube as having a U face of white and an F face of blue. The F face is the one face that is missing a tile and it is the bottom left one that is missing.. Do an R' turn on the cube, move the 2 tiles on the bottom layer of the F face to the left. Now do an R turn on the cube. As far as a regular Rubik's cube goes, you should be in the solved state because all you did was R' then R. But because you moved those tiles, the U face is missing a tile and the F face has 1 white tile and the rest are blue. Still seem like a regular Rubik's cube?

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:26 am 
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This is an interesting puzzle - and it sounds like a fun beginner's CAD project. I'll have a go at designing the pieces in CAD and will see how I get on :)


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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:53 am 
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katsmom wrote:
I've looked at your .jpg files, and I'm not sure how the tiles would be able to slide around the sides. You don't seem to have left room for this. Or are you designing this to slide only on one side each. So kind of like an 8 tile slide puzzle on each side? If you put grooves in to slide the tiles over hte edges, would it make the cube too fragile to hold together?


I'm actually not envisioning either puzzle for this. :lol:

It's a slider track that starts in one corner, goes all the way to the corner to the left, and then goes down and ends in the edge below the second corner. The slider track shouldn't really add any "puzzleness" to the puzzle, it's just for a visual feature.

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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:13 am 
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One of the reasons that I like this idea is that it is one of a couple of ways where someone could say, "I solved one side," without fundamentally misunderstanding what is going on.

I'd say that's a fairly significant difference.


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 Post subject: Re: slide cube
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:53 pm 
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Well what r u gonna put on the tabs? i think u should do like a few versions of
this like a number one(soduku) then like a color one then color variations.

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