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 Post subject: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:42 am 
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They seem perfectly happy to make the Ghost Cube, and that has many more unique pieces than the Golden Cube. Why do only the people who got the Golden Cube first get to have one, and not the rest of us??

The last time I saw one sell, it was for nearly $300. Simply because it's a rare puzzle. If it was still being produced, we wouldn't have these ridiculous prices!

Sure, Ghost Cubes are currently in higher demand than Golden Cubes. That's fine, but do you really need to stop making Golden Cubes entirely? At least clear it off your website when it's no longer being produced so it doesn't confuse people!

This kind of stuff really annoys me. It's not helping my view of Meffert's much, I must say...


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:55 am 
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While I agree to a large extent, I would love a golden cube, but there is no way I will every pay that kind of money for one.

The problem I believe is a matter of demand - you get a large demand for new puzzles when a new design is released, but whilst members of this forum I'm sure would buy them, those that don't already own them, it's hard to gauge the extra demand outside of twisty puzzle fanatics, especially since a lot will have bought them when they were around the first time.

To make a new production run cost effective would require a large batch to be made I'm sure, and they have to be stored whilst waiting to be sold etc, and the financial return on the investment is going to be over the course of years, not months. There are lots of us (including myself) that would love to see not only this, but golden eggs, dogics, and others produced again, but the demand is higher for new puzzles like ghost cubes etc unfortunately.

On top of this, Mefferts would be hurting a lot of collectors that have spent large amounts of money on these puzzles, believing them to be quite rare collectors items now, which would lose their value immensely if a new production run was to happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:19 pm 
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The fact that they go for so much is at least some proof of a demand for such a product. If a run of a thousand or so were produced I'm sure they would all be gone within a year. To spare collectors the heartache of devalued puzzles you could release the new batch in a different color than the old ones. I myself would be right in line if the price point was around 50$ each.


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:17 pm 
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Golden Cubes were loss making puzzles, just like the new Metalised Ghost Cubes are right now. Uwe is happy to give a little back to the puzzle community and they also help him sell his regular puzzles.
Leaving items on his website with the words "sold out" hurts no one and by clicking the "remind when available" gives him feedback even if certain puzzles are unlikely to ever get remade.
In these situations there is always a good reason even if they aren't always clear.

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:31 pm 
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megaminxwin wrote:
They seem perfectly happy to make the Ghost Cube, and that has many more unique pieces than the Golden Cube.

While this is true, you have to keep in mind that the Golden Cube is MUCH larger, around 8cm to an edge. This would also mean it would cost more to electroplate them as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:42 pm 
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benpuzzles wrote:
megaminxwin wrote:
They seem perfectly happy to make the Ghost Cube, and that has many more unique pieces than the Golden Cube.

While this is true, you have to keep in mind that the Golden Cube is MUCH larger, around 8cm to an edge. This would also mean it would cost more to electroplate them as well.


I would be perfectly happy with a black plastic stickered golden cube with metallic stickers. Its the puzzle I want not the metalized surface.


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:25 pm 
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garathnor wrote:
I would be perfectly happy with a black plastic stickered golden cube with metallic stickers. Its the puzzle I want not the metalized surface.

Me too! I HAVE spent large amounts on some puzzles before but for me it's the puzzling aspect that's important - I don't buy for rarity. I would love a smaller golden cube in black plastic with metallic sticker!

How about it Uwe?

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:46 pm 
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martywolfman wrote:
While I agree to a large extent, I would love a golden cube, but there is no way I will every pay that kind of money for one.

The problem I believe is a matter of demand - you get a large demand for new puzzles when a new design is released, but whilst members of this forum I'm sure would buy them, those that don't already own them, it's hard to gauge the extra demand outside of twisty puzzle fanatics, especially since a lot will have bought them when they were around the first time.


And by now, there are many more twisty puzzle fanatics who would really like a Golden Cube but have not been able to get one because they come up on eBay about once every two years or something.

martywolfman wrote:
To make a new production run cost effective would require a large batch to be made I'm sure, and they have to be stored whilst waiting to be sold etc, and the financial return on the investment is going to be over the course of years, not months. There are lots of us (including myself) that would love to see not only this, but golden eggs, dogics, and others produced again, but the demand is higher for new puzzles like ghost cubes etc unfortunately.


Produce them at the same time. I think there are probably a lot more people who want Golden Cubes than you think. I can't imagine the demand to be lower than the Feliks Pillow Cube...

martywolfman wrote:
On top of this, Mefferts would be hurting a lot of collectors that have spent large amounts of money on these puzzles, believing them to be quite rare collectors items now, which would lose their value immensely if a new production run was to happen.


Then make them a different colour to differentiate from the first batch. That'd be fine by me. Make it blue or something, like one of Tony Fisher's latest ones. I thought that looked really nice.

Tony Fisher wrote:
Golden Cubes were loss making puzzles, just like the new Metalised Ghost Cubes are right now. Uwe is happy to give a little back to the puzzle community and they also help him sell his regular puzzles.


They don't have to be metallised, they can just have the normal colour plastic with stickers. Like Puzzlemad said, it's the puzzle itself that matters. The metallised ones could be limited edition, sure, but the normal plastic with stickers could be the non-limited edition.

Tony Fisher wrote:
Leaving items on his website with the words "sold out" hurts no one and by clicking the "remind when available" gives him feedback even if certain puzzles are unlikely to ever get remade.
In these situations there is always a good reason even if they aren't always clear.


Well then say that they're no longer in production. It doesn't say on his website anywhere what puzzles are still in production and what are.


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:00 am 
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megaminxwin wrote:
Well then say that they're no longer in production. It doesn't say on his website anywhere what puzzles are still in production and what are.

Easily solved by mailing them or clicking remind me when available. When they don't become available ever... oh well, accept it. When they do you will be one of the first to know and snatch one.


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:08 am 
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Quote:
Tony Fisher wrote:
Leaving items on his website with the words "sold out" hurts no one and by clicking the "remind when available" gives him feedback even if certain puzzles are unlikely to ever get remade.
In these situations there is always a good reason even if they aren't always clear.


Well then say that they're no longer in production. It doesn't say on his website anywhere what puzzles are still in production and what are.
You're missing the point, the feedback tells him whether it's worth producing certain puzzles again. It could be worded better but that's why it's there.

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:28 am 
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I think a point Tony made (that may have been missed here) is "just because you don't understand the reason, doesn't mean there isn't a good reason".

Unless you know his business better than he does (and he has been at it for longer than most on this site have been alive) it is a bit silly to presume you can have some special insight he hasn't already considered.
Of course if it was in his interests he would do another run, why not? He has spent a very long time making this business what it is based on making us happy, not tormenting us.

The price of rare twistypuzzles is determined by a very few collectors, and isn't indicative of a groundswell of future sales. It may be hard to consider now, but the original Dogic was rare and collectable when Meffert manufactured a second batch. The intense demand of a few moneyed collectors was absorbed pretty fast and left him with a lot of stock for a long time. In retrospect these are now gone and rare again, but that experience is instructive: The second run of the Dogic wasn't really a win for Meffert (search katsmom's comments about it) and so even though it may work out well for collectors years later, that doesn't mean it will work out well for him as he takes all the risk and can't sell them at rare collector prices if he manufactures a batch.

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:52 am 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
Quote:
Tony Fisher wrote:
Leaving items on his website with the words "sold out" hurts no one and by clicking the "remind when available" gives him feedback even if certain puzzles are unlikely to ever get remade.
In these situations there is always a good reason even if they aren't always clear.


Well then say that they're no longer in production. It doesn't say on his website anywhere what puzzles are still in production and what are.
You're missing the point, the feedback tells him whether it's worth producing certain puzzles again. It could be worded better but that's why it's there.


Well it could at least say something along the lines of "hey, we're not making this puzzle any more, but if enough people ask for it, we might consider making it again!" Obviously it would be shortened, but something along those lines would work fine.

At this point, I'd be fine if the Golden Cube was 3D-printed. Sure, it would still be really expensive, but at least you'd always be able to get one. It would distinguish between the collector's items and the newer ones, and it wouldn't be a huge problem with manufacturing, as it's made on the fly. Why can't we have this?


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:59 am 
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Meffert's is as Meffert's does.

You know it now, right? :)


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:26 am 
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megaminxwin wrote:
At this point, I'd be fine if the Golden Cube was 3D-printed. Sure, it would still be really expensive, but at least you'd always be able to get one. It would distinguish between the collector's items and the newer ones, and it wouldn't be a huge problem with manufacturing, as it's made on the fly. Why can't we have this?
I don't think that TF is much enamoured of 3D printing, especially of one of his babies. It has been done already (nearly) but there is no point in making this fully 3D printable. You could always make one yourself of course :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:03 am 
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Seems to me he doesn't want to make any more money on the molds he had already made. I cannot imagine how many Meffert's would sell if he chose to make 200 or so more. I just wish he would create a pre-order and see what the numbers are.


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:16 am 
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The numbers ARE known to him. Just press that button.


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:30 am 
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So we have arrived at this point then. Everyone go click this here and let him know we want these, in a new color or the old we don't care as long as we get it :)

http://www.mefferts.com/products/produc ... =13&id=236

There it is people. Sign up now so he knows!


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:51 am 
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garathnor wrote:
So we have arrived at this point then. Everyone go click this here and let him know we want these, in a new color or the old we don't care as long as we get it :)

http://www.mefferts.com/products/produc ... =13&id=236

There it is people. Sign up now so he knows!

Unfortunately, this will probably not make any difference at all. I'd love to be proven wrong, but if he hasn't brought the puzzle back after all these years, it's unlikely that he ever will despite what others want. If it isn't financially viable for him to do so (as Tony said, they don't make any profit) he most likely won't.

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:58 am 
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That is the new question then. How many and at what price would make this viable for him to do? Sadly this is a question only he could answer.


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:41 pm 
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mizzle576 wrote:
Seems to me he doesn't want to make any more money on the molds he had already made. I cannot imagine how many Meffert's would sell if he chose to make 200 or so more. I just wish he would create a pre-order and see what the numbers are.

He can't make 200, it doesn't work like that. He has to order in the thousands. Remember he doesn't own any factories.

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:04 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
mizzle576 wrote:
Seems to me he doesn't want to make any more money on the molds he had already made. I cannot imagine how many Meffert's would sell if he chose to make 200 or so more. I just wish he would create a pre-order and see what the numbers are.

He can't make 200, it doesn't work like that. He has to order in the thousands. Remember he doesn't own any factories.


Let me clarify. The Gold, Silver, and Copper versions were 200 per "color." At any rate, I cannot imagine why Uwe wouldn't do another run. Obviously the demand is high and it is one of the best puzzles to ever come from Meffert's. Personally, I still have every color but wouldn't mind buying a few more sets.


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:46 pm 
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I think I know why maybe its because Mefferts made alot of them but like with dogics they didnot sell very well so he re shaped the mould to make a different puzzle.


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:17 pm 
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mizzle576 wrote:
Tony Fisher wrote:
mizzle576 wrote:
Seems to me he doesn't want to make any more money on the molds he had already made. I cannot imagine how many Meffert's would sell if he chose to make 200 or so more. I just wish he would create a pre-order and see what the numbers are.

He can't make 200, it doesn't work like that. He has to order in the thousands. Remember he doesn't own any factories.


Let me clarify. The Gold, Silver, and Copper versions were 200 per "color."

As I stated earlier they are loss making. I mean he has to order thousands to make it financially viable. I have discussed this stuff with Uwe numerous times. He says the average buyer wants cheap puzzles they are able to solve, not expensive ones they can't.

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:16 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
I have discussed this stuff with Uwe numerous times. He says the average buyer wants cheap puzzles they are able to solve, not expensive ones they can't.
The words spoken by a man of experience and wisdom.

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:21 pm 
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I understand the concept of a profit margin. However, making cheap puzzles is a market best left for the KO companies of China, not Meffert's. I thought Meffert's was a superior company that we counted on as a manufacturer of quality puzzles rather than "cheap." :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:25 pm 
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That's too bad, with the ghost cube coming out ghost type puzzle in fashion right now...


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:52 pm 
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mizzle576 wrote:
However, making cheap puzzles is a market best left for the KO companies of China, not Meffert's. I thought Meffert's was a superior company that we counted on as a manufacturer of quality puzzles rather than "cheap." :roll:
All Meffert's puzzles are already made in "knock off" China. But Meffer'ts is usually honourable, and gives credit and payments to those who are due it. Most of us here are discussing this subject without any experience or knowledge of the difficulties and problems of bringing a twisty puzzles to the mass produced world. And by "mass produced" I mean ABS injection moulded.

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:57 pm 
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Gus wrote:
mizzle576 wrote:
However, making cheap puzzles is a market best left for the KO companies of China, not Meffert's. I thought Meffert's was a superior company that we counted on as a manufacturer of quality puzzles rather than "cheap." :roll:
All Meffert's puzzles are already made in "knock off" China. But Meffer'ts is usually honourable, and gives credit and payments to those who are due it. Most of us here are discussing this subject without any experience or knowledge of the difficulties and problems of bringing a twisty puzzles to the mass produced world. And by "mass produced" I mean ABS injection moulded.


That's weird, haven't seen any knock off Golden Cubes?


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:25 pm 
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mizzle576 wrote:
That's weird, haven't seen any knock off Golden Cubes?

I believe he's just saying that the puzzles are simply made in China, and that he called it KO China to signify that other KO brands produce there.

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:38 pm 
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Like Tony, I have spoken with Uwe about this almost every time some one on this forum begins to believe they have a right to a Meffert's puzzle that is out of stock.
These puzzles are not a moneymaking item. The Dogic, the Golden Cube, The venus, to name just a few were a loss for him. He spent the money on the molds and it took all too long to sell them.

While you are discussing the fact that the molds are still there, you are forgetting the increase in the cost of labor and raw materials. A run of only a couple hundred is not financially viable, in fact, it costs more to start up the machines than will be made off the puzzles. The golden cubes that are electroplated are the same golden cubes, they took them into yet another factory to be coated. Again, this is another factory that needs to be paid for. If Meffert's decides to not reproduce, it may simply be because he's tired of losing money on that particular toy.

But at the end of the day, if Uwe decides not to make a puzzle again, that's his business. You do what the rest of us do. HUNT!

And while the golden cube has yet to be KO'd, the egg's have been.

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:53 pm 
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katsmom wrote:
And while the golden cube has yet to be KO'd, the egg's have been.

Wait, what? :o
I didn't even know. Please excuse my ignorance above.

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:10 pm 
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katsmom, Dave, Tony and others reveal all the reasons why we should not have unrealistic expectations of Uwe to produce these desirable puzzles. I'd only like to add that I think all on this forum also appreciate the frustration this causes especially for new collectors on a budget. Unfortunately that does not change the facts, and my advice would be for new collectors to vote by registering thier interest on Uwe's web site as suggested earlier in this post, we can only hope if enough people register it might make sense at some point in the future.

In the meantime good luck hunting down that rare puzzle on eBay, there is also the Marketplace forum.


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:15 am 
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One more thought I didn't expand upon before:

People seem to imply the high price of a collectable puzzle means he could perhaps sell them for a high price. But let's just say he magically had 200 more produced. What would be the proper price he should charge?
I would posit that if he set the price where people want (original price was a loss), he would lose big.
And if he set the price high, people would scream he was gouging them as they would only compare it to the original.
As the price goes up, the market dries up quickly.

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:28 am 
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DLitwin wrote:
But let's just say he magically had 200 more produced. What would be the proper price he should charge?

It also depends on supply and demand. Let's assume a hypothetical situation:
Producing only 200 really is a very small supply by production standards. Assuming the demand is high, he would raise the price on the puzzles from the original price, to which then people would be complaining and not buy the puzzles due to them being "too expensive" and as such he would not sell them all in a leisurely time frame, therefore loosing money in the process.
Truth is: If you want a Golden Cube, then you will have to be willing to pay quite a bit more.

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:55 am 
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benpuzzles wrote:
It also depends on supply and demand.
Speaking of supply and demand... Despite what you've seen in your economics classes the demand curve is almost never linear. Economics tends to simplify things and assumes the demand curve is in red below. In reality the demand curve is more like the blue:
Attachment:
tp_price_demand_curve.png
tp_price_demand_curve.png [ 2.82 KiB | Viewed 982 times ]


The very high prices of Dogics and Golden Cubes is not an indication of high demand! It's an indication of low supply. If Meffert's made another 2000 of them demand at $50 would probably be gone by about the 500th puzzle.

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:08 am 
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It can also be very simply seen and put as:

if he don't want, we don't get

And obviously he doesn't want to do it :)


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:10 am 
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Kattenvriendin wrote:
It can also be very simply seen and put as:

if he don't want, we don't get

And obviously he doesn't want to do it :)

That's awfully close to a tautology. I suspect Meffert's wants to make an unlimited supply of every puzzle they can, but the economic reality prevents them from doing so.

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:14 am 
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He doesn't want to spend a huge amount out of his own pocket, with good reasons.

It really IS that simple as I put it, and we just have to accept it.




The TS basically says the site is misleading, which is what I THINK the whole point is that he is trying to make.

That is also up to Uwe to do with as he pleases. We can like it or dislike it, as with the above, this we also have to accept as the way things are done.


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:55 am 
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I really think it's more nuanced than that. We don't have to chalk it up to Uwe's whims. It's easy to see how he could come to a rational but undesirable decision not to produce more puzzles. Saying "Uwe does't want to" just invites more "why doesn't Meffert's want to make more xyz?".

See http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(rhetoric) for my point about your statement.

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:41 am 
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Hello everybody. I don't think the demand is large. Because when I see a very new and beautiful puzzle like the metalised ghost cube, and I have seen in this topic: http://www.twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=27080
"I have no money to pay this cube" or "meffert's web site is a serious web site?", when I read this, I think not many people like very rare puzzles like this. Personally, when I have seen this puzzle, I have pre ordered it immediately.

And the golden cube have been out of stock after several months... So, the demand is not so big for this rare puzzle.


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:23 am 
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Brandon: You are completely missing my point, it doesn't have to do with whims, it has to do with simple logic: it costs money, more than it brings in.


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:35 am 
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Well, I used to think a bit like this.. I wish they'd just make more of this or that, but in the end..

If puzzling leads you to get a bit of a collection together.. you pay too much for some puzzles, you get a great deal on others.. sometimes one comes that didn't live up to the listing..

In the end, the money that you spend on `the whole`.. if you spread those `few` expensive puzzles that `you choose` to splurge on across the whole cost, it really doesn't change your `average puzzle cost` much. There are only a few small run MP puzzles, that command such steep prices.

I've bought a few in that category now, and at least it saves me wishing they would be produced again all the time.

Just a thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:38 am 
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My tuttminx curvy was one of those expensive splurges, but I am very happy to have one as they seem to be getting more rare. New, that is.


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:46 am 
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The reason why I had used the number 200 comes from www.mefferts.com. The metalized golden cubes were made at 200 per color on two separate runs. So yes, I was also talking in the thousands. As in 1000-2000 for another run (5 colors=200 x 5=1000). I understand 200 puzzles cannot be made with the possibility of an acceptable profit margin.

Also, no one thinks they are "entitled" to out of stock puzzles here and its a shame to assume such.


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:41 am 
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I don't know about the factories Meffert uses, but I hear it isn't uncommon for injection molding companies to have minimum order sizes on the order of 10,000. Even if every registered member of this forum wanted three golden cubes, it would still be less than that figure, and I daresay that the number of TP.com members who want 1 is only a small fraction of the total.

Also, the fact that, as far as we know, no KO Golden Cubes have been made speaks volumes: even those who disregard quality in the name of lowering costs can't get the cost down to a point where they think it would be profitable.

As for the 3D printing suggestion, would a 3D printed full-size Golden cube offer any significant savings over what they are going for on eBay? Even if you used a mass-produced skewb for the core and just printed extensions, I'm sure the cost would be well into the triple digits. You might be able to save some money by miniaturizing the cube, but I hear Meffert's ran into problems trying to use a mini-skewb core in the Golden Cube which is the main reason the mass produced ones are so massive. The most expensive 3D printed puzzle in my collection cost ~50USD and is small enough I can hide it in my fist. Even if its mostly hollow, even a smaller version of the Golden Cube would have significantly more mass.

All that said, if some wealthy puzzle enthusiast approached Meffert and the relevant designer offering to foot the cost for another production run and putting the money upfront, I doubt Meffert would turn down the offer.

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:41 am 
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Jeffrey, you hit the magic number. Uwe has always said get a company to order 10,000 and he will open the molds again. So....who wants to order 10k?

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:14 am 
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Man, I leave the thread for a day...

There's a good idea. Let's make a fund for new Golden Cubes. How much would it be?

It seems like everyone's going on about the cost of electroplating. Again, it doesn't have to be electroplated at all. That can be the original versions, and the normal ones with stickers can be the newer versions. Or the plastic can just be a different colour.

Okay, so Meffert's doesn't actually own any factories. That's fine. Does Calvin? His puzzles are very high quality and he respects IP. Also, I've never seen a single puzzle of his go out of stock, with the exception of the White Pillow Dino and a couple of 4x4x6s, and I imagine more are on the way. Even the "limited edition" puzzles are still being offered. He seems to work with Meffert's on a few puzzles as well.

There you go. Give the rights to Calvin, still get great puzzles, everybody's happy. Admittedly it might take a bit of work to transfer IP, but I can't imagine anything else being much harder...


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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:27 am 
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I try to collect mechanisms so to me personally a Golden Cube is a Skewb and I already have one. I nearly passed on the Ghost Cubes too as they are 3x3x3's to me but the 4 metalized ones just looked too nice to pass up. I also thought the mass produced Golden Cube was too big but I likely would have passed even if it had a 60mm edge length. But if there is demand and Tony is agreeable, I have an idea...
Gus wrote:
I don't think that TF is much enamoured of 3D printing, especially of one of his babies.
Yes... I would say that is a fair statement. So this could very easily get shot down. I'd have no hard feelings either way.
Jeffery Mewtamer wrote:
As for the 3D printing suggestion, would a 3D printed full-size Golden cube offer any significant savings over what they are going for on eBay? Even if you used a mass-produced skewb for the core and just printed extensions, I'm sure the cost would be well into the triple digits.
I doubt that. I think a totally 3D printed Golden Cube with 60mm or maybe 57mm edge length (is there a preference?) could be made for under $100. I'd be willing to try and if sucessful, I'd be willing to freely give the model to Tony to offer in a Shapeways shop if he wanted to. I don't believe he currently has one. Tony and I have butted heads in the past but I harbor no ill will as a result and I would be happy to give Tony a positive experience with 3D printing if I could. I have other projects I'm already very behind on so I won't be starting on this unless Tony is OK with it and others have expressed an interest. And even then don't expect this to happen over night.

As for what do I get out of it? I just enjoy the geometry problem of coming up with the design and its good Solidworks experience. And I hope it would be a good way to stop the butting of heads...

Oh... and one other potential issue. Would Uwe have issues with Tony offering this on Shapeways? We may need his buy in too. I'm not sure. Did he patent the Golden Cube before he produced it? And if he did is the patent in Uwe's name or Tony's?

Anyways... just wanted to throw that out there.
Carl

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:18 pm 
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megaminxwin wrote:
Man, I leave the thread for a day...

There's a good idea. Let's make a fund for new Golden Cubes. How much would it be?

It seems like everyone's going on about the cost of electroplating. Again, it doesn't have to be electroplated at all. That can be the original versions, and the normal ones with stickers can be the newer versions. Or the plastic can just be a different colour.

Okay, so Meffert's doesn't actually own any factories. That's fine. Does Calvin? His puzzles are very high quality and he respects IP. Also, I've never seen a single puzzle of his go out of stock, with the exception of the White Pillow Dino and a couple of 4x4x6s, and I imagine more are on the way. Even the "limited edition" puzzles are still being offered. He seems to work with Meffert's on a few puzzles as well.

There you go. Give the rights to Calvin, still get great puzzles, everybody's happy. Admittedly it might take a bit of work to transfer IP, but I can't imagine anything else being much harder...


You're a stubborn little man, aren't ya? :lol:

When I started to read this thread, I was right there with you, I'm not rich at all and I would like to own some of the puzzles you talk about as well. However, it has become very clear to me, reading very intelligent replies by people who understand and even know Uwe personally, that what we would like is not possible.

I'm not sure why you keep up this attitude. I think that a lot of smart people have given easy-to-understand answers to your questions, and you should just read it all again without prejudice, and then reply. I'm sorry, but to me, you're not being very reasonable here...

Thanks to Uwe, we have a lot of awesome puzzles available that we can buy, solve and collect, and some of his puzzles are no longer available, and are very costly to buy second-hand. Live with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Why doesn't Meffert's make Golden Cubes any more??
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:24 pm 
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Even though there seems to be a demand for these, I think the demand is much smaller than what some people realize. Just because a few people are willing to pay the current high market value price for these on eBay and a dozen or so members who post here want one (but aren’t willing to pay the high market value price) doesn’t mean that Meffert’s would be able to sell thousands of them, or even hundreds. I bet it would be difficult to get even 50 people to commit to buying one of these today at the price they were originally selling for when Meffert’s offered them. The same thing can be said about the Dogic.

Using the argument that Calvin hasn’t sold out most of his puzzles really goes against the idea of wanting Meffert’s to produce more. It shows that there isn’t that much demand for unique puzzles. Once the collectors and regulars from here buy them then the rest of the inventory just sits around. This is a niche hobby. If the unique collectable items don’t sell out (or take a long time to do so) then it is not good for the producer.


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