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 Post subject: Would this be a new puzzle?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:11 pm 
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Has anyone made a cube with a hidden core so that there are no centers, and you can look all the way through the center of any side?

I guess it would be a 2x2x2 with edges. I'd love to have one. It could do something that Rubik's cube can't: You could swap two corners without affecting edges and you could swap two edges without affecting corners.

If not:

Any suggestions on how to make a hidden core?

Anyone want to take up the challenge and make one?
If it sells can I have royalties? :)

How many possible positions?

Thanks,

David J


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:11 pm 
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Conceptually, it's the same as just taking off the center stickers, right?

When I read your description, it immediately made me think of these,
http://www.stefan-pochmann.de/spocc/other_stuff/7x7_idea/
http://twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/puzzle.cgi?pid=1320
http://www.rokenbok.com/estore/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=Rokenbok+Toys&category%5Fname=Product+Index&product%5Fid=10917

Good luck!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:45 pm 
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Hi pkobayashi,

pkobayashi wrote:
Conceptually, it's the same as just taking off the center stickers, right?


Mathematically, yes, conceptually no. I find the idea of having nothing where the Rubik's cube's spindle usually is intriguing.

pkobayashi wrote:


I had a similar idea to Stefan's but using inset magnets which can rotate in place so that there's never a problem of matching polarity.

I can't see enough of the second one's mechanism to tell whether it might be the basis of a centerless cube.

Your third example is definitely on the right track. :) How big are those things?

David J


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:44 am 
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I think it would be very hard to make inner slice turns ;-). Well, unless maybe the four edges in an inner slice are somehow connected, maybe with circles that lie next to them but in the outer layers.

Number of positions? Take one corner as reference. The other 7 are free to move like in a normal 3x3 and the edges, too, but even independently. So I'd say 7! * 3^6 * 12! * 2^11. Or you take an edge as reference and get 11! * 2^10 * 8! * 3^7.


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 Post subject: Re: Would this be a new puzzle?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:12 pm 
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David J wrote:
Any suggestions on how to make a hidden core?


Okay, so, it took a while, but, I think I finally got something. I even had to learn how to use a 3D modeling tool, to see if it was even possible. :)

The trick is the hollow kernel, with mushroom-shaped tips, where the edge-pieces have an inner section that slides between the mushrooms.

The corner pieces are held in with a tongue and groove system.

I think the model is probably much more complicated than it needs to be. The actual kernel could probably be made with just three tubes, and six washers. And, the pieces could be adapted from regular Rubik's pieces.

After making my first puzzle, the 8 Color Cube, I realized with a toddler running around, I wouldn't have any time soon to actually make one of these. :) So, if anyone wants to try, I'd love to see the end result.

If you want to play with the 3D model, you can download Silo, and try it for free for 30 days, http://www.nevercenter.com (no affiliation, just a happy customer).


Attachments:
File comment: Donut Cube 3D model, modeled in Silo
donut_cube.zip [268.64 KiB]
Downloaded 285 times
File comment: Donut Cube
donut_cube.jpg
donut_cube.jpg [ 72.81 KiB | Viewed 5000 times ]

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 Post subject: centerless cube
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:25 pm 
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Hi pkobayashi,

That's very interesting. Could you post images of the inside of an edge cubie?

Thanks,

David J


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 Post subject: Re: centerless cube
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:53 pm 
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David J wrote:
That's very interesting. Could you post images of the inside of an edge cubie?


Glad you like it! The edge pieces are fairly straightforward--square on the outside, round on the inside, grooves on the inside edges (for the corner pieces), and a floating "canoe" connected in the middle. :)


Attachments:
File comment: Donut Cube, edge piece
edge_cube.jpg
edge_cube.jpg [ 53.58 KiB | Viewed 4767 times ]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:09 pm 
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Hi pkobayashi,

Thanks. I think I understand it.

If the fourth picture is the UL edge then the edge would slide for a U or an L turn, but take the whole kernal with it for the slice S (or f in my notation).

Right?

David J


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:42 pm 
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David J wrote:
If the fourth picture is the UL edge then the edge would slide for a U or an L turn, but take the whole kernal with it for the slice S (or f in my notation).


Yup, that's exactly right. Movement wise, the Donut Cube is not all that different than a regular Rubik's Cube.

The trick is getting the kernel big enough that it can contain the hole. This kernel design also has the feature of no moving parts, which I thought would make for easier construction.

The other idea I had was having a more conventional kernel shaped like a cross, with all the pieces held in by a tongue and groove system, kind of like a 3D 15-Puzzle. Eventually I gave up on that idea because I thought it would be too hard to craft by hand, although I did end up using the same idea for the corners of the Donut Cube.

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 Post subject: Centerless cube
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:31 pm 
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I probably should have made it clearer at the time that I was looking for someone to work with me to build it.

David J

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:01 pm 
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Looks like it's been done David.

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List of Speedcubing methods
Speedcubing tutorial

@.=split(//,"J huhesartc kPaeenrro,lt");do{print$.[$_];$_=($_+3)%25;}while($_!=0);


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:59 pm 
void cube?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:15 pm 
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emr1028 wrote:
void cube?


This is a void cube. :D :) 8-) :wink:

http://puzzle3d.hp.infoseek.co.jp/voidcube.html

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:32 pm 
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He was answering my statement that David's idea has been done, the Void Cube.

I think emr knows what it is :)

_________________
List of Speedcubing methods
Speedcubing tutorial

@.=split(//,"J huhesartc kPaeenrro,lt");do{print$.[$_];$_=($_+3)%25;}while($_!=0);


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:49 pm 
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Man, I want a Void Cube. I wish they'd mass produce them.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:05 pm 
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Hoakyman wrote:
Man, I want a Void Cube. I wish they'd mass produce them.


yeah the void cube is cool. But why you know its just a 3x3x3 you can stick your fingers thru :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:21 am 
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Rick Mazzante wrote:
Hoakyman wrote:
Man, I want a Void Cube. I wish they'd mass produce them.


yeah the void cube is cool. But why you know its just a 3x3x3 you can stick your fingers thru :D


Yeah, and that RULES! Hahahaha.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:12 am 
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Rick Mazzante wrote:
yeah the void cube is cool. But why you know its just a 3x3x3 you can stick your fingers thru :D



Well, besides the ingenius mechanism, a centerless 3x3x3 gives no clues regarding which center is where, and this can create some nasty "unsolvable" look! So it is not just like any simple 3x3x3, it is more than that!

And yes, I also loved sticking my finger through it LOL

;)


Pantazis

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 Post subject: centerless cube
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:39 pm 
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Pembo wrote:
Looks like it's been done David.


Hey Pembo, look at the date at the beginning of the thread.

...and yes, I just heard that it had been done, hence my most recent comment above.

David J


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 Post subject: centerless cube
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:50 pm 
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kastellorizo wrote:
Rick Mazzante wrote:
yeah the void cube is cool. But why you know its just a 3x3x3 you can stick your fingers thru :D



Well, besides the ingenius mechanism, a centerless 3x3x3 gives no clues regarding which center is where, and this can create some nasty "unsolvable" look! So it is not just like any simple 3x3x3, it is more than that!

And yes, I also loved sticking my finger through it LOL

;)


Pantazis


Most everybody knows that on a regular 3x3x3 Rubik's cube you can't switch only two edges or only two corners, but you can switch two edges and two corners together. That particular manifestation of how movement of edges and corners is integrated is very cool, and what many don't know is: that integration extends to the centers.

If you move four centers on a slice 90 degrees and then solve the slice's edges correctly you will find that either two edges or two corners are switched.

So solving the centerless cube requires knowing something that the regular Rubik's cube usually doesn't.

:)

David J


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:25 pm 
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kastellorizo wrote:

And yes, I also loved sticking my finger through it LOL

;)


Pantazis


yea i would love doing that too :D :D lol

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:33 pm 
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Rick Mazzante wrote:
kastellorizo wrote:

And yes, I also loved sticking my finger through it LOL

;)


Pantazis


yea i would love doing that too :D :D lol


If what Pantazis has told me is true, he's a bit closer to that cube than any of us would like to know :shock:

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