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 Post subject: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:04 pm 
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Just a quick question.....

Does anyone know when we might see a commercial release of the petaminx?


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 Post subject: Re: Petaminx
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:10 pm 
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Swami wrote:
Just a quick question.....

Does anyone know when we might see a commercial release of the petaminx?


It'd be too expensive to mass produce to make it profitable, I believe. Sorry :(

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 Post subject: Re: Petaminx
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:18 pm 
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Hadn't Cube 4 You promised to produce one eventually?


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 Post subject: Re: Petaminx
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:20 pm 
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Follow-up question, then: If it's believed that it will not be mass produced, is there any way to obtain one currently?


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 Post subject: Re: Petaminx
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:20 pm 
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Find someone who is willing to sell Petaminx files and/or sell the puzzle on Shapeways.

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 Post subject: Re: Petaminx
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:27 pm 
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Sky has one but I haven't seen him in a while, so you might have to find someone else, but I'm sure you don't want to pay 250$ for a Petaminx ^^

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 Post subject: Re: Petaminx
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:41 pm 
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Actually, $250 is reasonable......if it's brand new.


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 Post subject: Re: Petaminx
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:46 pm 
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I'm not sure where you got that number from, Greg. Void petaminxes start at $900. However, you are correct that Sky has seemingly been away for a while. I have tried contacting him so that I could send him part of the profits from a void gigaminx sale, but I haven't gotten a response.

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 Post subject: Re: Petaminx
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:55 pm 
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will_57 wrote:
I'm not sure where you got that number from, Greg. Void petaminxes start at $900. However, you are correct that Sky has seemingly been away for a while. I have tried contacting him so that I could send him part of the profits from a void gigaminx sale, but I haven't gotten a response.


I meant a full print for a petaminx the size of an average gigaminx, and without markup ! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Petaminx
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:58 pm 
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Well, $900 can ...;) I'll hold me breath for a commercial version. I'm confident mf8 will step up :)

watch your language please!


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 Post subject: Re: Petaminx
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:39 pm 
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Scrambling the letters of a swear word does not make it any less a swear word, nor change the intent.


Maybe I'm underexposed to colloquialisms, but that doesn't make sense either way.

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 Post subject: Re: Petaminx
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:19 pm 
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Here is what we thought about a year ago. Has anything changed since? I think the Teraminx probably proved it wasn't worth it.

Dave

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 Post subject: Re: Petaminx
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:58 am 
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Swami wrote:
Just a quick question.....

Does anyone know when we might see a commercial release of the petaminx?

May I ask a question :
Will the mass produced commercial release of the petaminx infringe anyone's patent, copyright and etc ?
8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Petaminx
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:04 am 
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May I say something:
Why wanting a Petaminx so bad? Isn't a Teraminx enough? That's just too crazy. :?
You guys are nuts! Are even ever going to solve it than? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Petaminx
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:55 am 
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I hope they can make it :D . I would buy it and use it.. I like to have a puzzle going over a few days and pick it up every now and then, or a few around the house at different stages. I don't think it's any different to doing smaller ones over and over. It would be a really cool puzzle to own, it's absolutely astounding that it can exist!
Cheers,
Burgo.

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 Post subject: Re: Petaminx
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:29 am 
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I agree with alaskajoe. Solving a petaminx should be tedious. I am currently solving for the third times my teraminx and this is very long... I could not imagine what it would be with a petaminx.

I have also realized that handling a teraminx during the solve is not so easy, especially for me, who have little hands (altough my wife doesn't complained about them :wink: ).

So, petaminx, which is bigger, should be built as a void petaminx, to be correctly handling. I don't know if it is add cost or not.

But, if a petaminx is released (please Calvin...) at an honnest price, sure I would buy one, because it is so impressive!! But I am not sure I will solve it!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Petaminx
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:53 am 
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alacoume wrote:
.........
But, if a petaminx is released (please Calvin...) at an honnest price, sure I would buy one, because it is so impressive!! But I am not sure I will solve it!!!!!!

Thanks for your concern. ^^
We usually follow the list prices of the factories or inventors, say for all the mf8 puzzles, dayan puzzles, and also Meffert's puzzles. I hate price wars, particularly when the puzzles are newly launched. That hurts the factories, inventors, distributors, all other resellers and the puzzles. Hence, kill the puzzles.

There is always gray area on the patents, particularly the copyrights.
Can anyone answer the question :
Will the mass produced commercial release of the petaminx infringe anyone's patent, copyright and etc ?

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Last edited by calvinfan on Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Petaminx
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:22 am 
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I would be very much interested in a Petaminx if it was reasonably priced. I am currently working through a solve of an MF8 teraminx (one I bought from Muffet). Usually once a day I'll pick it up and work on it for 20 minutes or so and them move onto something else. It's kind of like having a large jigsaw puzzle on the dining room table. You don't solve it all at once, but do take pleasure in seeing the puzzle come together slowly but surely. I'm looking at my partially solved teraminx now and it likes kind of cool, the centers have been solved and the edges mostly paired up. After posting this message, I think I'll finish the edges. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Petaminx
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:16 am 
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this topic makes me kind of angry. I am not raging around or anything. But my heart sure stopped for a second whe I saw the topic in the "recent" section.
Please change the name if the topic.
[Admin: Changed the topic title]

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 Post subject: Re: Petaminx
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:15 am 
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alacoume wrote:
...But, if a petaminx is released (please Calvin...) at an honnest price, sure I would buy one, because it is so impressive!! But I am not sure I will solve it!!!!!!
What is a honest price for a Petaminx?
I agree with alaskajoe that solving it is not difficult but very tedious. Still, I would buy one, even if the price is higher than for any mass-produced puzzle so far.
I doubt if someone will take the risk mass-producing a Petaminx :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:37 am 
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I agree, it is very risky to produce petaminx. But who knows ?
And I don't think also the price will be lower than 100$


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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:40 am 
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Yeah, it would pretty much have to be well over $100, but I'm sure there are lots of us who wouldn't mind paying that for one.


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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:41 am 
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excalvin wrote:
There is always gray area on the patents, particularly the copyrights.
Can anyone ask the question :
Will the mass produced commercial release of the petaminx infringe anyone's patent, copyright and etc ?
It certainly won't infringe any patents.
As for copyright or etc. here are some thoughts I expressed last year.

viewtopic.php?p=198257#p198257
viewtopic.php?p=198541#p198541

Dave

P.S. For those wishing to comment further on the matter, please take the time to read what has been said before, there is a lot that has been covered :)

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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:10 am 
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to the producers:

please, no more "big cubes"

It´s more fun, new simple puzzles like this


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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:20 am 
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juanan wrote:
to the producers:

please, no more "big cubes"

It´s more fun, new simple puzzles like this

I agree: simple puzzles based on ingenious new concepts are more interesting, engaging and commercially appealing (not to mention less risky and cheaper to make) than mega-complex versions of old concepts.

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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:48 am 
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Indeed. Puzzles like the Teraminx already scare the living daylights of 99.9% of people.
Well, if the goal is to decrease the error/tolerance from 0.1 to 0.01 (i.e. to 99.99% of people),
then I can agree. :lol:

We are living at a time where we have access to myriad different means to create puzzles
which are simple, elegant and based on new concepts. So we should focus on this, instead
of wasting too much time making obvious modifications (including obvious extensions) of
washed up ideas which have been beaten to death.

Therefore, from now on, we should all only post in the... Non-Twisty Puzzle Forum!

:mrgreen: 8-) (ok, ok forget the last two sentences LOL)


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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:06 pm 
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Laymen are scared to death by anything. The Pyraminx for example. solving the Pyraminx infront of a live audience had even a greater impact that a speedsolving 3x3x3.
I for one would die for a mass produced Petaminx. I can solve a Teraminx in a couple of hours, and I would love to have a puzzle that would take me days to solve. In fact I dont even care about the solving length or being able to solve it at all. It is a Petaminx were are talking about.
I will pay 150 dollars for a black, unstickered one.

Also, what you call wasting time Kastellorizo, is the most opposit it could be.
I do not agree with you.

There are so many companies out there. Mf8 is making so much puzzles that it might not be a task for them (Mf8 would be my first choie if I could pick a company though).
But a company like VeryPuzzle (Tuttminx producer) could maybe handle it. And let Dayan, Mf8, Meffert's and others take care of the "new elegangt" puzzles you are referring to

ALSO I would like to add that I am in this for the "classic" looking twisty puzzles. IMO the Petaminx is the crown piece of the twistypuzzle family.
It would be a shame, shame I tell you, if it never gets produced!

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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:15 pm 
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kastellorizo wrote:
Indeed. Puzzles like the Teraminx already scare the living daylights of 99.9% of people.
Well, if the goal is to decrease the error/tolerance from 0.1 to 0.01 (i.e. to 99.99% of people),
then I can agree. :lol:

0.01% of 6 billion people would still be a big enough potential market (600,000 people) worth pursuing. I would say the market for a petaminx is less than 600 people globally at a realistic price (including maybe about 20 TP members that could afford it), but your point is spot on. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:40 pm 
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Here are two thoughts
1) A product does not need to be a commercial success to be on the market, as long as there is an investor who believes in it. Many puzzles have been produced by one-off companies, only to discover that the market is tougher than expected. We have at least three entrepeneurs at the Twisty Puzzles Forum that have learned this lesson the hard way. So this discussion may be about us wishing for more of such entrepeneurs ...
2) My Over The Top 17x17x17 puzzle has achieved its expected market penetration of 0.000 000 048% of the world population, and 0.000 000 016% even bought two samples (you know who I mean). That allowed me to break even.

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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:14 pm 
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Sigurd wrote:
Also, what you call wasting time Kastellorizo, is the most opposit it could be.
I do not agree with you.


Hey, hey, easy here, I actually mentioned to "forget" my last two sentences,
because if someone read them in a serious way (which they were not!)
would surely sound very harsh (obviously, not my intention!).

I do agree that any puzzle that comes out can help the community in many
ways. There have been a few examples where a puzzle (which was thought
as "pointless to make"), was not only a success, but also provided new ways
of creating mechanisms and new mathematical solving ways.

But if I had to choose between a new and fresh concept with a novel "wow factor",
and an extension of a known idea, to be honest, I would prefer the first. That said,
the latter may provide new useful info for making other future mechanisms, so in
the end of the day, many more "complex engineering structure" vs "unique simple
maths puzzle" factors come to the picture. In any case, I hope there are no bad
feelings, as this discussion is a pretty neat one!

And did anyone say... Zettaminx???

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:42 pm 
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I don't have any idea what it costs to produce an average twisty puzzle, or a larger twisty puzzle like a gigaminx (or a petaminx, for that matter). There are a few people on this forum who do have an exact idea of how much it costs. Anyhow, I could see many appealing projects that don't really get picked up by manufacturers, at least not yet.

If I knew how much it actually costs, if I had the right contacts to turn to to actually order the production of a puzzle, if I have an interesting design, if I had an estimate of how many people would probably buy it and whether that would be enough to make a production run - then I would probably try to finance the production run on kickstarter.

Frankly, I only have a couple of Shapeways puzzles because I really dislike the material. I wouldn't mind to pay comparable money once in a while if they were puzzles nicely made in real plastic. I believe that might be something to think about, combined with the above. 8-)

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Last edited by Aleksey on Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:35 am 
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In my eyes it is OK if the Petaminx stays being a puzzle for only few people.
I am not the type of person who has the opinion that it is a shame how many puzzles are mass produced today. It's the opposite. I think our hobby deserves to be as big in the world as possible and puzzles which mechanisms are known should be mass produced so they are affordable for anyone. But some really crazy concepts like the Chopasaurus (just one example) or very high order insanities are suited for "hardcore collectors" (actually I don't like the term to much).
The Petaminx seems like a good puzzle to remain special and reserved for those who pay a lot of money for a 3D printed or custom version.
And I don't even have one. So I am not just saying this because I own one and want it to stay special.
I don't know how much Mf8 can invest. It seems like they are good. But I would welcome if the money was spendet on other concepts. I am really thrilled about their planed Pentultimate so I really can't complain and also I obviously wouldn't know better what's good for their business than them but I just think about it this way.
Still excalvin, whatever you do is going to be epic and apreciated.

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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:50 pm 
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The Teraminx wasn't bought by many people, so there isn't a point of making a bigger version.


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 Post subject: Re: Petaminx
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:37 am 
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Konrad wrote:
... I doubt if someone will take the risk mass-producing a Petaminx :roll:

Having said that, I do not understand why people stand up and say: "Do not mass-produce it!" It is the risk of the producer and you will not be urged to buy it, right?
And saying it is an "obvious modification" is a little bit similar as saying that the 6x6x6 had been obvious and why should one bother to buy and solve something that is just more of the same.
I do not like such attitudes because it sounds in my ears like telling somebody else which taste he/she should have. :) (I can understand perfectly Sigurd's reaction :wink: )

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 Post subject: Re: Petaminx
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:15 am 
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Konrad wrote:
Konrad wrote:
... I doubt if someone will take the risk mass-producing a Petaminx :roll:

Having said that, I do not understand why people stand up and say: "Do not mass-produce it!" It is the risk of the producer and you will not be urged to buy it, right?
And saying it is an "obvious modification" is a little bit similar as saying that the 6x6x6 had been obvious and why should one bother to buy and solve something that is just more of the same.
I do not like such attitudes because it sounds in my ears like telling somebody else which taste he/she should have. :) (I can understand perfectly Sigurd's reaction :wink: )


Thank you!

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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:40 am 
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kastellorizo wrote:
We are living at a time where we have access to myriad different means to create puzzles
which are simple, elegant and based on new concepts. So we should focus on this, instead
of wasting too much time making obvious modifications (including obvious extensions) of
washed up ideas which have been beaten to death.

Therefore, from now on, we should all only post in the... Non-Twisty Puzzle Forum!

:mrgreen: 8-) (ok, ok forget the last two sentences LOL)


Pantazis


I totally agree. I think everyone should stop wasting their time making twisty puzzles. Oskar can start designing jigsaw puzzles and Tom can occupy his time on Sudoku. Everyone else can do the same. Then I can claim back the twisty variations market and give up my other job forever!!
Seriously though I also agree with Sigurd and Konrad. It may have been a joke but I sensed a serious tone.

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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:56 pm 
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Oskar wrote:
My Over The Top 17x17x17[/url] puzzle has achieved its expected market penetration of 0.000 000 048% of the world population, and 0.000 000 016% even bought two samples (you know who I mean). That allowed me to break even.
People who are the first to do something like this very rarely are the ones to make the mega bucks. Think fruit themed shiny toy manufacturer. But, by god, it is still bloody hard to take the first step, and I salute those who do.

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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:59 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
kastellorizo wrote:
We are living at a time where we have access to myriad different means to create puzzles
which are simple, elegant and based on new concepts. So we should focus on this, instead
of wasting too much time making obvious modifications (including obvious extensions) of
washed up ideas which have been beaten to death.

Therefore, from now on, we should all only post in the... Non-Twisty Puzzle Forum!

:mrgreen: 8-) (ok, ok forget the last two sentences LOL)


Pantazis


I totally agree. I think everyone should stop wasting their time making twisty puzzles. Oskar can start designing jigsaw puzzles and Tom can occupy his time on Sudoku. Everyone else can do the same. Then I can claim back the twisty variations market and give up my other job forever!!
Seriously though I also agree with Sigurd and Konrad. It may have been a joke but I sensed a serious tone.


And knowing that what I actually stated was a joke, I did not just sense,
but received a lot of unnecessary sarcasm in yours.


Pantazis

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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:04 pm 
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This always give me some hope though:

http://forum.cube4you.com/thread-2610-1-1.html


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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:23 pm 
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Quite frankly, I think that it all depends on the demand for the puzzle. If the demand isn't high enough they won't make enough profits. They have to guarantee that enough people will pay for such a large puzzle. This I can see being mass produced but higher order such as the examinx or the yottaminx, absolutely not.

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 Post subject: Re: Petaminx
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:31 pm 
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Konrad wrote:
And saying it is an "obvious modification" is a little bit similar as saying that the 6x6x6 had been obvious and why should one bother to buy and solve something that is just more of the same.
I do not like such attitudes because it sounds in my ears like telling somebody else which taste he/she should have. :) (I can understand perfectly Sigurd's reaction :wink: )


If you knew me better you would know that this was stated in a mathematical way.
Now seriously, isn't it obvious (I repeat, mathematically) how to go from 2x2x2, to 3x3x3 and so on
and then solve a puzzle? The answer is yes, and it only becomes more tedious, and nothing more.
Now, if we had a puzzle based on new group types, they would all be welcome, by everyone.
Also, if we looked a puzzle from an engineering point of view, like the 6x6x6, then we are talking
about miracles and amazing internal structures. No question about that, and this has been
expressed by me many times. But do not confuse those two points of view.

And I am not sure what you don't like, "attitudes" like mine, or people with freedom to speak?
(and for God's sake even mention that they joke about it!)

Wow, just wow... (and I will not comment about your attitude, though tempted).

But most importantly, who said I was against mass production of those puzzles?
When someone explains the reasoning based on personal experiences with non-puzzle
people and then expands on why investors generally do not look into it, does not mean
that this someone shares the same non-puzzle people thoughts. But hey, apologies for
adding my two cents. My mistake. I won't share anything like this again. And to be honest,
it is more of a "I don't want to" than "I won't".


Pantazis

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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:28 pm 
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kastellorizo wrote:
So we should focus on this, instead of wasting too much time making obvious modifications (including obvious extensions) of washed up ideas which have been beaten to death.

Therefore, from now on, we should all only post in the... Non-Twisty Puzzle Forum!

:mrgreen: 8-) (ok, ok forget the last two sentences LOL)

Pantazis
Pantazis, I totally get your point, and also read the last part of your initial post!

Designing/producing puzzles like the Petaminx is an amazing technical and engineering feat, but it adds little to the puzzle solving experience. If you enjoy the mathematics and the challenge of new puzzles then Oskar's designs are the ones which push the boundaries of what is possible, and every one creates a new solving experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:10 pm 
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Pantazis, I would never be without your point of view! I need it! :)
This is a discussion forum (if you have forgotton :D)- and I feel the right to state if I agree or disagree with someone. especially in a thread that might have influence on a producer. It's much better than to stay quiet anyway.
I will have to answer for myself, if people agree with me or not that is fine. And you will have to accept that as well :)

I have to add that I think what you are thinking of, and want mass produced, is a branch off twistypuzzles. And where are we?

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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:35 pm 
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Sigurd wrote:
Pantazis, I would never be without your point of view! I need it! :)
This is a discussion forum (if you have forgotton :D)- and I feel the right to state if I agree or disagree with someone. especially in a thread that might have influence on a producer. It's much better than to stay quiet anyway.
I will have to answer for myself, if people agree with me or not that is fine. And you will have to accept that as well :)


No Sigurd, it seems that you are forgetting what is going on, and this is kind of starting to insult me.
(maybe this is the goal?).

Agreeing and disagreeing about puzzles is fine. But when I merely state my experiences and views,
while then one person judges my attitude and the other being directly sarcastic towards me telling me
that *he* knows better what *I* felt when I wrote some words, then this is crossing the line of a good
discussion. Did I do any of those to them or to you? No, and it isn't nice.

And now you are asking me to accept things I already accept(!). Sorry, but this just adding more
smoke without any reason (but as I promised in my previous message, I will stay quiet anyway
from such expressions of mine for puzzles, because clearly it annoys some people here).


Pantazis

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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:51 pm 
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kastellorizo wrote:
Sigurd wrote:
Pantazis, I would never be without your point of view! I need it! :)
This is a discussion forum (if you have forgotton :D)- and I feel the right to state if I agree or disagree with someone. especially in a thread that might have influence on a producer. It's much better than to stay quiet anyway.
I will have to answer for myself, if people agree with me or not that is fine. And you will have to accept that as well :)


No Sigurd, it seems that you are forgetting what is going on, and this is kind of starting to insult me.
(maybe this is the goal?).

Agreeing and disagreeing about puzzles is fine. But when I merely state my experiences and views,
while then one person judges my attitude and the other being directly sarcastic towards me telling me
that *he* knows better what *I* felt when I wrote some words, then this is crossing the line of a good
discussion. Did I do any of those to them or to you? No, and it isn't nice.

And now you are asking me to accept things I already accept(!). Sorry, but this just adding more
smoke without any reason (but as I promised in my previous message, I will stay quiet anyway
from such expressions of mine for puzzles, because clearly it annoys some people here).


Pantazis

I am sorry, for I am only human. I coulnd't keep track of everything at once. My apologies.
Now I completely agree with your statement. When ever someone crosses one's line, its unacceptable. We are moving into ethics now I suppose and fear (maybe this should be taken into pm?). I am sorry to hear if you feel attacked. I dont think anyone has the right to say those kinds of things. And no you did certainly not cross my line in any way at all.
I am not sucking up, if you wanna call it that. I cincerely want this to be cleared with no wandering off.
But what is my role? I hope you work it out.

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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:56 pm 
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Sigurd wrote:
kastellorizo wrote:
Sigurd wrote:
Pantazis, I would never be without your point of view! I need it! :)
This is a discussion forum (if you have forgotton :D)- and I feel the right to state if I agree or disagree with someone. especially in a thread that might have influence on a producer. It's much better than to stay quiet anyway.
I will have to answer for myself, if people agree with me or not that is fine. And you will have to accept that as well :)


No Sigurd, it seems that you are forgetting what is going on, and this is kind of starting to insult me.
(maybe this is the goal?).

Agreeing and disagreeing about puzzles is fine. But when I merely state my experiences and views,
while then one person judges my attitude and the other being directly sarcastic towards me telling me
that *he* knows better what *I* felt when I wrote some words, then this is crossing the line of a good
discussion. Did I do any of those to them or to you? No, and it isn't nice.

And now you are asking me to accept things I already accept(!). Sorry, but this just adding more
smoke without any reason (but as I promised in my previous message, I will stay quiet anyway
from such expressions of mine for puzzles, because clearly it annoys some people here).


Pantazis

I am sorry, for I am only human. I coulnd't keep track of everything at once. My apologies.
Now I completely agree with your statement. When ever someone crosses one's line, its unacceptable. We are moving into ethics now I suppose and fear (maybe this should be taken into pm?). I am sorry to hear if you feel attacked. I dont think anyone has the right to say those kinds of things. And no you did certainly not cross my line in any way at all.
I am not sucking up, if you wanna call it that. I cincerely want this to be cleared with no wandering off.
But what is my role? I hope you work it out.


I just thought that everyone was supposed to talk about the puzzles (like I did), not about others.
Simple as that. And I hope we will get back to the topic, so I will stop here and take some time off.


Pantazis

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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:01 pm 
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To get back on topic, he is another thought:

We are not talking about the last mass produced puzzle ever.
We are talking about if this will have a chance.

Wether it will be produced right now, in near future, or never won't matter regarding the question: Will it hinder the production of all the special new puzzles you can imagine?

Hold on.
I know that depends on how well the Petaminx sells.
But if is it doesnt have a market, then my name is Elvis Presley

AND an interesting fact:
Drewseph's Teraminx has about 1,5 million views on youtube.
Jason Smith's Petaminx has about 1 million views as well.
The demand seems good to me. :)

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I believe it would work best with black plastic.

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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:29 am 
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Having known most of you for some time now I am pretty sure offense was not intended regardless of how things may have been worded.

So let's start with that as a presumption and not let any mis-impressions cloud the otherwise pleasant mood of the forum.

If anyone feels my interpretation is incorrect and someone did indeed intend offense, feel free to bring it up with them in private. I am happy to be CCd if that helps.

Dave

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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:27 am 
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Sigurd wrote:
Drewseph's Teraminx has about 1,5 million views on youtube.
Jason Smith's Petaminx has about 1 million views as well.
The demand seems good to me. :)
Watching a free 2 minute video by clicking a link isn't exactly the same level of investment as shelling out maybe over $100, but I take your point that a lot of people are certainly interested/curious, which is at least the first step towards making a purchase... :D

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 Post subject: Re: Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:20 am 
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DLitwin wrote:
Having known most of you for some time now I am pretty sure offense was not intended regardless of how things may have been worded....
Dave
Indeed I have never had the slightest intention to be offensive.
I had written the text below already when I read Dave's post.

Pantazis, if you knew me better, you would know that I never want to insult anybody here.
This is a friendly and hopefully tolerant forum,right? And I’m trying hard to be friendly and tolerant myself. If you feel insulted, I apologize, but I fail to understand why you feel insulted. Do we have a language problem? Is it the word “attitude”? My English-German dictionary does not reveal it as an insulting word. :)

This is the important part of my post, the rest is an explanation why I reacted the way I have.
It will be the final post from me in this thread.
Sorry for the long text below. You can skip it, if you are not interested in the details. Originally, I had not planned to respond anything, but when I saw your angry reactions in the further conversation with Sigurd, I wanted to explain why I wrote what I wrote. And please, do not interpret anything in my wording as sarcastic. I have tried my best (as a non native speaker :) ) to avoid making you more angry.

Let’s go back to the original sentences
kastellorizo wrote:
We are living at a time where we have access to myriad different means to create puzzles
which are simple, elegant and based on new concepts. So we should focus on this, instead
of wasting too much time making obvious modifications (including obvious extensions) of
washed up ideas which have been beaten to death.

Therefore, from now on, we should all only post in the... Non-Twisty Puzzle Forum!

(ok, ok forget the last two sentences LOL)
The subject of the thread is “Will the Petaminx ever see commercial release?”If I take your last sentence verbally and forget the last two sentences, then the remaining serious sentence is “We are living at a time where we have access to myriad different means to create puzzles which are simple, elegant and based on new concepts.” This sentence does not tell me anything about your opinion regarding the Petaminx. The question for the reader is now, how much of your real opinion is contained in the following sentence regarding the specific case Petaminx? Is it so far fetched that your sentence, qualified as joking, still says something about your personal view on this puzzle?

Can you understand that this sentence about “wasting time” can be understood (or possibly misunderstood) as not very tolerant against others who have expressed that they would like a mass-produced Petaminx? Sigurd’s reaction showed that he did not perceive it as a friendly and tolerant statement.

You say that you do not talk about others, but the “we should” contains a lot of others besides one Pantazis. Therefore, it can be understood (or possibly misunderstood) as a “you should”. This understanding lead to my remark.
Konrad wrote:
I do not like such attitudes because it sounds in my ears like telling somebody else which taste he/she should have. (I can understand perfectly Sigurd's reaction )
If it had never been your intention "telling somebody else which taste he/she should have", why not just say that you do not have this intention (attitude)? It is perfectly OK if somebody says his/her opinion about a certain puzzle. It is OK too that somebody says "we should" containing an implicit "you should". Please, accept that I have the right to reject, if somebody tells us what we should think about it. Probably this is part of your joking?
kastellorizo wrote:
...I just thought that everyone was supposed to talk about the puzzles (like I did), not about others.

Simple as that. And I hope we will get back to the topic, so I will stop here and take some time off.

Pantazis
Seriously, what have you said about the Petaminx? Do I guess right that you find it superfluous that it will be mass-produced? No problem with this opinion, but then your joking sentence was only half joking?
And you are not talking about others, but call Tony sarcastic? I'm pretty sure he meant it humorous.
Please, do not be angry any longer. You have every right to express your view on this puzzle. I have the right to express mine and I think this includes the right to write what I have written. Again, if anything in my wording can be perceived as insulting, I apologize.

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