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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:20 am 
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Yes, i've just noticed, either that or glued on, - stupid of me not to notice i know (my poor fingers!) - i have managed to pry one corner off that had a slight gap already (so much for not trying any more today!) - i did break one leg but i don't care about that at the moment but the other caps....how much do you need to cut away with the exacto knife because i've cut away quite a bit and the caps still will not move...also i'm a bit worried that the scraping away is going to affect the turning when i reassemble the puzzle....


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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:35 am 
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The corner caps are glued on. What makes it really difficult to take them off is that some of the glue may be on the pins / in the pin holes so you won't get to it with a knife. I ended up breaking at least 1 pin on 5 of my corner caps. Also, the screw holding the inner and outer parts of one of my edge pieces is stripped out. I'm going to have to glue it together. Finally, it seems that my core is somewhat warped. No matter how I adjust the screws one specific edge always tends to want to pop apart. It doesn't matter which edge pieces I place in that location, they all act the same way. It appears that the core's arms are spread apart a bit between that edge.


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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:43 am 
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ok, got a second cap off - the first where there wasn't already a gap for me to pry with a screwdriver, and man it's hard work!
I have to stop now as i have to go somewhere, i will update again tomorrow.

I also noticed that one of my arms seems to be out of alignment with the other arms on the cube, i thought it had to be this way for a reason but if your pieces are having trouble when reassembled it doesn't sound too good.

I have one question: why did they glue these caps on? surely it would be better to have some caps that are a bit loose but could be tightened with paper/ blue tack/ glue after adjusting tensions to your liking rather than to have these problems.

Warning to everyone: DO NOT OVER LOOSEN at the beginning, much better to reassemble it and for it to still be a little tight than for it to be too loose.


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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:01 pm 
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For those who have not yet got a Mosaic Cube, here are good news from Uwe:
They have shipped all Mosaic Cubes assembled so far and are currently out of stock. After seeing so many complaints, Uwe had second thoughts if they should produce more.
As he is getting some encouragement from me and others, he says now "temporarily out of stock" :D

I'm not sure if they will change the tension, though. Honestly, if I would have loosened the screws at the beginning (and getting off the caps seems to be a real adventure :roll: ), I would probably now tighten them again.

BTW: The puzzle is surprisingly easy to solve. I could figure it out while doing a little walk on a icy way along a river nearby :D

EDIT: I have just read in Hidetoshi's post that he had to tighten the screws :lol: Am I just lucky? :D

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:24 pm 
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Got all the caps off, once you know what you are doing it gets easier, for beginners like myself i hope my posts make what you have to do a little clearer.

I recommend putting a sticker/something on the core that will help you keep track of which cap belongs on which arm.

With the caps off adjusting the tension is easy and results in a fairly stable puzzle but it does need to be realigned after several twists.

About the misaligned arm... for me that seems to have been to do with the tension of the puzzle - it has sorted itself out now that the tensions are right.

Konrad wrote:
and getting off the caps seems to be a real adventure :roll:


Not exactly how i'd describe it Konrad but then i guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion, or are they? :roll:

I'm quite happy i got one of these puzzles as they are very different to anything else available although it probably won't be a puzzle i solve very often.

In my opinion if it's possible for Uwe to make the newer puzzles without sealing the caps on it would be better.


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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:59 pm 
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Well, I received mine too today. I had some hope my cube would be OK, but of course, it was way too tight.
I disassemled the whole thing and reduced the tension. I did this without taking off the caps by the way. I just started pulling the arms. Re-assembling isn't too diffcult once you've figured it all out.
The puzzle is now playable, but needs to be re-aligned often. It does not keep a perfect cubic form. I think I actually made one or two arm too loose. So I think I'll try to get those two caps off after all and use the screws to tighten it a bit.
Some stickers are misalligned, but nothing too bad. The visual look of the puzzle is great. It's just beautiful. That being said, I'm still a bit disappointed. I did not expect this kind of quality. Next time a new puzzle is released, I wont be an early buyer, that's for sure. I'll first wait and see what other people's puzzles will be like.
But I also understand how difficult this puzzle was to design and make. I'm not really blaming Uwe for this.


Last edited by Kedest on Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:14 pm 
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Zzupler wrote:
...
Konrad wrote:
and getting off the caps seems to be a real adventure :roll:
Not exactly how i'd describe it Konrad but then i guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion, or are they? :roll:

I'm quite happy i got one of these puzzles as they are very different to anything else available
I quite agree with this view. :D Easy to find a solving method, still each solve requires more pattern recognition and thinking than an automatic solve of a Rubik's Cube. A puzzle, though, that needs and deserves some care. :) I have scrambled and solved it six or seven times and have not seen a single pop. Nothing for speedsolving for sure, but a really good puzzle.
BTW - as you may have seen in my picture above - my stickers are well aligned for a mass-produced puzzle.
Zzupler wrote:
although it probably won't be a puzzle i solve very often.
In my opinion if it's possible for Uwe to make the newer puzzles without sealing the caps on it would be better.
After having a close look at this thread, Uwe made this decision:
Uwe wrote:
Hallo Konrad, OK. so we will try to make the tension just a fraction looser do not glue the caps but include one Tube of Super Glue Gel.
You can expect that they will restock them, and then everybody can set the tension to his / her liking. :)
I hope, evrybody, waiting for a second run, agrees that this is the right decision. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:27 pm 
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So a second production run with loose caps? That would be a nice solution I guess.
I might even buy one, because I don't think I'll ever get the caps off mine. I've been trying all evening now. It's a bit too loose now, I think it might pop if I'm not carefull.


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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:45 pm 
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I´m very very disappointed with this puzzle

when i buy a puzzle i want to play with it, I dont want to dissasembly for repair it

:evil: :twisted:

question: after repaired the puzzle turns well or not ?

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:33 pm 
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juanan wrote:
I´m very very disappointed with this

What happend if I broke the puzzle trying to adjust
I'm sure, you would be able to get replacement parts
juanan wrote:
....
when i buy a puzzle i want to play with it, I dont want to dissasembly for repair it

:evil: :twisted:
Have you really tried to play with it? I do not believe that yours is so different from mine. I could play with it out of the box. I admit that it needs more careful alignment than others. But it was playable, without popping, without serious locks.
And mine has improved substantially, just by more playing and some more lubrication.

Have you never had some puzzle that needed patience for breaking it in?
Better never get a Shapeways DIY kit :lol: In the case of the Fadi Cube you would have the chance to believe that $ 336.29 are in danger :lol:
I understand this has been a very hard and expensive project for Uwe. He has been very close to the decision to keep it "out of stock" forever, after he had looked at the complaints here. Would you rather not have that puzzle at all??? Or pay the Shapeways price? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:54 pm 
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Konrad wrote:
Have you really tried to play with it? I do not believe that yours is so different from mine. I could play with it out of the box. I admit that it needs more careful alignment than others. But it was playable, without popping, without serious locks.
And mine has improved substantially, just by more playing and some more lubrication.


Think again. You are in the minority - consider yourself lucky. Not every puzzle is the same, but more than most are like this one as is mine. It is not playable in the least little bit. It does not need breaking in. Pieces turn and it is in not popping , but the whole puzzle is just a jumbled mess. None of the puzzle pieces' lines line up and pieces are protruding forth from the rest of the pieces all over the place. It has nothing to do with preference - in fact some of the corners if I manually (with force) line up the pieces they turn very well and are lubricated plenty and smooth. Picture trying to squeeze a lump of coal into a diamond in your hand and while you are doing that you can turn and manipulate the puzzle.

I am not knocking Meffert's and usually give them a pass on things and am thankful to have this puzzle. However, more careful attention should have been paid to the assembly of this unique puzzle. I don't expect to have to tear apart a brand new puzzle fresh from the factory to get it to work right.

I do appreciate you getting that info from Uwe about future puzzle and I am glad your puuzle is working fine. Me, I have a bunch of work ahead of me.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube, is it possible to loosen the tension?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:24 pm 
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roger wrote:
NType3 wrote:
It *may* be disassembled by U.S. security, so i don't know how that would affect it

I wonder how. So far I haven't figured out how to take it apart.




just to let you know when you take it apart its some what difficult to put the last few pieces in


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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:06 am 
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Konrad wrote:
juanan wrote:
I´m very very disappointed with this

What happend if I broke the puzzle trying to adjust
I'm sure, you would be able to get replacement parts


I'm sure you wouldn't. I've been waiting for a broken piece (I didn't break it, it was broken when I opened the package, which was also broken, and the puzzle was not bubble-wrapped or anything) for 8 months now, all the tell me is that they're waiting for Uwe's word.

Anyway, they've been shipping puzzles that are not just too tight, they're literally out of shape. There are things you cannont defend. "It is still playable" is NOT an excuse. Good they've reacted and quit shipping, but they should make refunds until things get fixed.


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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:42 am 
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after dissasembly and assembly (not adjusting the tension) the puzzle runs better

now is playable ¡¡¡ not perfect alignement but better than before, why?

I ´m afraid of disassembly the hard glued corners

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Last edited by juanan on Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:45 am 
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Cyberdman wrote:
Konrad wrote:
Have you really tried to play with it? I do not believe that yours is so different from mine. I could play with it out of the box. I admit that it needs more careful alignment than others. But it was playable, without popping, without serious locks.
And mine has improved substantially, just by more playing and some more lubrication.
Think again. You are in the minority - consider yourself lucky.
Actually, I do not believe in the theory that I'm just the lucky guy. Maybe, I am the minority of one, who has not immediately started with a screw driver? :) :lol:
Konrad's 1st post in this thread wrote:
It is probably in the same condition as the others (I have aligned it carefully for taking the pictures ),
Cyberdman wrote:
Not every puzzle is the same, but more than most are like this one as is mine. It is not playable in the least little bit. It does not need breaking in. Pieces turn and it is in not popping , but the whole puzzle is just a jumbled mess.
Literally "a jumbled mess"? :( Seems that it is much worse than others? Most have reported it as "too tight". Please, can you show us a picture?
Cyberdman wrote:
None of the puzzle pieces' lines line up and pieces are protruding forth from the rest of the pieces all over the place. It has nothing to do with preference - in fact some of the corners if I manually (with force)
You are aware, that a single corner is not expected to be turned, right? The smallest entity you can turn legally is a corner + 3 adjacent edges. I can not imagine that you need force doing this. Even with very, very tight screws, this simple turn should work, always. Turning "larger chunks" maybe much harder, though. Oskar's Fadi video
Cyberdman wrote:
...I am not knocking Meffert's and usually give them a pass on things and am thankful to have this puzzle. However, more careful attention should have been paid to the assembly of this unique puzzle. I don't expect to have to tear apart a brand new puzzle fresh from the factory to get it to work right.

I do appreciate you getting that info from Uwe about future puzzle and I am glad your puuzle is working fine. Me, I have a bunch of work ahead of me.
I have heard from Uwe that he randomly took six puzzles out of the production and played a whole evening with them. Only one of them showed problems. It popped, because the screws were too loose.

I would really like to see one of the "bad" puzzles out of the box.
Is someone willing to sell his /her to me (for $42 + shipping costs = registered Mail; German seller prefered for lower shipping costs; payment via Paypal)?
The conditions would be
- it is still out of the box, just legal turns attempted
- no diassembly tried, no broken parts
- photo or video shown here, before the deal is made
- shipped in a well chushioned card box (preferably in the original box)
- Completely open transaction, discussed here - only the details like shipping address and Paypal addresses would be kept private
- I would make a fair comparison between the "bad" and mine - which I certainly do not describe as perfect, but good, given the complex physical structure of this puzzle.

PM me, if you are interested, but, please, be aware that I want to handle it openly and if we make a deal, I would post your username here. (I'm using here no smiley in order to express that this is serious and not a joke.)

Anyway, those who are considering to buy it, should know: You can NOT expect further changes, but the one described by Uwe above
Quote:
Hallo Konrad, OK. so we will try to make the tension just a fraction looser do not glue the caps but include one Tube of Super Glue Gel.
Uwe will certainly NOT make a third expensive mold and more prototypes.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:01 am 
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Konrad wrote:
Anyway, those who are considering to buy it, should know: You can NOT expect further changes, but the one described by Uwe above
Quote:
Hallo Konrad, OK. so we will try to make the tension just a fraction looser do not glue the caps but include one Tube of Super Glue Gel.
Uwe will certainly NOT make a third expensive mold and more prototypes.


For me (and probably for others too), this is more than OK, but I still don't understand why they let some puzzles go that looked like this:

Attachment:
DSC06520_sm.jpg


EDIT: I meant, like the first image in this thread.

Anyway, I'm glad it will get fixed.


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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:17 am 
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Konrad - You really are full of yourself and thank you for insinuating that I am a complete idiot. Apparently you don't really understand what you read. Any person - even of mild intelligence knows you can't rotate a corner piece alone. What I was getting at was if you push everything together with a ton of force so things line up better around the corner pieces than you can rotate the cube fairly well, it isn't a matter of smoothed out turns or needing lubing. Without a ton of forcing of the puzzle into an aligned condition you can not turn it very well, if at all, and certainly cannot enjoy playing with this puzzle.

I haven't immediately started with a screw driver. I haven't done anything to the puzzle yet, I do not want to break it or sever any caps. However, it absolutely needs to be taken apart and tension loosened. It is too tight - way too tight and that is why it is a jumbled mess. Maybe it is worse than others, but it doesn't mean people are making this up either. I can put mine against a table and forceably align it. Then set it down, leave the room and come back a few hours later and it is all messed up again with pieces sticking out all over the place. No I'm not selling you my puzzle - that is a stupid suggestion and another insinuation that us folks that are having trouble are just idiots that don't know what we are doing.

I am not, nor has anyone else, suggested that Uwe make new molds and remold the puzzle when the only thing it needs is the assembler to not drive the in screws until they can not be tightened anymore. I am a designer. I understand production and manufacturing. With little effort he could make some type of stop guide or jig or whatever you want to call it to place in-position while screwing on the corners so that they are not over tightened.

I fail to understand why you are so defensive and refuse to believe what people are telling you. Why would we be lying? That makes no sense - I have nothing to gain by that. How hard is it to just consider yourself lucky and leave it at that?

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:52 am 
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Cyberdman wrote:
Konrad - You really are full of yourself and thank you for insinuating that I am a complete idiot. Apparently you don't really understand what you read. ...
I had no intention insulting you and I hope you hadn't this intention either. I'm not a complete idiot either, and I can read :)
(Peace, please do not take this as a new offense! :) )

I can assure you, that at the beginning my cube looked exactly as Roger's in his first picture.
I have now done a few thousand moves and lubricated it three times with my favourite silicone spray.
(It may be, that the original lube is not so great.) Why do you not believe me, that breaking in and lubrication helps?

I assure you again: My Mosaic cube has improved substantially compared with its original state.
I'm not yet ready to accept that I have been just lucky. My theory is instead, that I'm expecting less, that I'm patient (not in real life so much, but with puzzles :lol: ) and that I use a really good silicone spray :)

I hope, you will end up with a reasonable turning quality and, yes, they should have made the screws accessible in the first place.
Again: No offense meant!
I'm fighting here a bit for this puzzle, because I feel that the innovative concept should overrule the somehow limited turning quality.

Konrad

EDIT:
juanan wrote:
after dissasembly and assembly (not adjusting the tension) the puzzle runs better

now is playable ¡¡¡ not perfect alignement but better than before, why?...
Maybe, because some of the flash got removed? Have you lubricated it? Anyway, your experience shows, that not everything is connected with the tension :)

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:44 am 
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Okay I don't mean to be offensive either - I was just on the defensive because it sounds like you thought I - and maybe the rest of us problem puzzlers- are morons.

The puzzle came lubricated, please believe me (I can't believe I even have to plead with someone over the internet to believe me) that it has nothing to do with lubrication. It is not bound because it is dry. It is bound because nothing lines up. As I said numerous times, when I forcefully align the puzzle as I turn. It turns great. Whats more - the interior surfaces of puzzle you can see as you manipulate it are shiney and extremely smooth. There is no flash or anything else binding the puzzle other than being too tight. The extreme tightness of the corners in this type of puzzle wants by nature to eject all the pieces to make room for everything to fit in. No amount of playing (if you even could stand it) or breaking-in will make this puzzle better or playable. It needs to be dissassembled and loosened a thread or 2, although I am nervous about doing it because I don't want to break it.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:58 am 
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Firstly, as i said before, now that i have taken off my caps and adjusted the tensions my puzzle turns ok, nothing wonderful, but i was warned before i bought it that the turning was not great, as such i am now happy with my puzzle.

I do believe however that these puzzles should not have been shipped out with the caps sealed, someone should have realised and corrected the problem before they were shipped as will now happen with the second batch ( caps not sealed and tube of glue provided)

Konrad, perhaps you could show a video of your cube's turning and that way perhaps people would get a better idea of the best they could expect turningwise, and people would know whether their expectations were too high or yours too low.


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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:05 am 
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What a pain it was to remove those caps. I wish that the mechanism had a stabilizing ball instead of the 8 AXIS core. That would help a TON!

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:39 am 
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Zzupler wrote:
...Konrad, perhaps you could show a video of your cube's turning and that way perhaps people would get a better idea of the best they could expect turningwise, and people would know whether their expectations were too high or yours too low.
Unfortunately, I have not got a video camera. Possibly, you could make one with your Mosaic cube and I can comment, if yours is substantially better?
Cyberdman wrote:
...The puzzle came lubricated, please believe me (I can't believe I even have to plead with someone over the internet to believe me)
Seems that I have to plead myself, too? :) Please, believe me :lol: that my puzzle has improved substantially just by playing and lubricating it. I have lubricated it the first time very early in the game and had the impression that the inner friction has been reduced immediately. If you believe me, what is your explanation for my observation? What theory explains juanan's observation?
Cyberdman wrote:
...It needs to be dissassembled and loosened a thread or 2, although I am nervous about doing it because I don't want to break it.
Have you seen TomZ's recommendation? He gives the advice not to worry about breaking the stems and glue the caps on afterwards.
If Zzupler can convince me, that his is better, maybe, I'll take on the challenge to remove my caps myself.
For now, I'll not post here any more, because I have a high priority project that has nothing to do with puzzles.
If everybody feels better, I'll accept that I'm a lucky man (lower expectation + patience + silicone spray + luck has made Konrad say: This is a good puzzle! :lol: )

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:43 am 
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I'm fairly certain there will be a video coming to the Meffert's channel soon.

I have had 3 of these in my hands this week. One turned beautifully right out of the packaging. One had a piece pop out consistently, and one was very tight and stiff. Two of them I have, one I returned to Uwe. I took the one I disassembled back to Uwe because I couldn't get the last pieces in. As we looked at it, we realized there was a flaw in the part. Now he believes that is a rare occurrence, but is going to give it to the engineers at the factory to take a look at.

I also introduced him to my friend Bluetack! If he makes these again, he said he would leave the caps unglued and add a chunk of bluetack to the puzzles to hold the caps in place. I swear by the stuff, and really suguest you try it for holding caps in place-it works much better than paper, doesn't harm the puzzles, and doesn't degrade rapidly. (I've some photos of the bug hanging on my wall for the past 8 years using the same bit of bluetack!)

I would like to remind everyone of Uwe's newsletter dated the 16th of January:
Quote:
The mosaic cube has been a long time in production. It is finally at the best quality we can make it. This puzzle has undergone five different prototyping’s and debugging. It has had two complete sets of moulds made for it. It has been in the production process for over seven months now.

It is not as smooth turning as what you have come to expect from Mefferts puzzles. Rather than destroy the moulds and abandon this project, we have decided to release it FIRST to Jade club members, with a fantastic responce.

This puzzle is a collectors puzzle. Whilst not suitable for speed cubing similar to our Pyraminx Crystal by Aleh Hladzilin (which became one of our best limited edition selling puzzles) this is not to say it is not playable. It is! You can view it in action here: http://www.YouTube.com. It is just not made to be turned rapidly and it does not cut corners.

This is a beautiful puzzle to behold. It has initially been offered through the Jade Club. From Saturday January 15th. it will also be available through our Mefferts website to our many Puzzle Fans and the general public. This is a very difficult and costly to produce puzzle, I am saying it is a collectors puzzle because we now have no plans to produce it again.




He very clearly states it is a collectors puzzle and not suitable for speed cubing. And that it is NOT as smooth as other Meffert's puzzles.

We spoke at length about this puzzle tonight, and I think he may make another run of it...but he's still a bit iffy after receiving the few complaints he has gotten. He also reminded me yet again about the stiffness of the original pyraminxes and the breaking in period. The stiff one I got earlier has been played with a lot, and now turns very nicely. Just keep working the puzzle.

*standard disclaimer: I don't work for Meffert's and am just attempting to show how to help solve the problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:33 am 
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Konrad wrote:
Seems that I have to plead myself, too? :) Please, believe me :lol: that my puzzle has improved substantially just by playing and lubricating it. I have lubricated it the first time very early in the game and had the impression that the inner friction has been reduced immediately. If you believe me, what is your explanation for my observation? What theory explains juanan's observation?


Funny I never said I didn't believe that your puzzle turns fine. Our puzzles are quite different and that is a fact, even though you are in denial.

I understand it is a unique and delicate puzzle. I happen to really like it and that is why I don't want to break it, but it does need to come apart and be adjusted/corrected. I'll have to pick up some blue-tack. Thanks for the suggestion Rox.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:04 am 
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Just broke a piece trying to reassemble my cube after making a video. The little screws holes in each of the "shoes" are very delicate. I will try to glue it back together. I will upload the video if you want to see it but a word of warning, there is a lot of hand!

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:52 am 
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Cyberdman wrote:
Funny I never said I didn't believe that your puzzle turns fine.
The point is
Quote:
Please, believe me :lol: that my puzzle has improved substantially just by playing and lubricating it.
You have said that it is lubricated well (What I doubt. There has been a lot of lube, but possibly my silicone spray is just better?) and breaking in does not help. Well, what has changed it? (If you believe me :) )

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:59 am 
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You are just lucky. The gods, sunshine and rainbows all smile upon you.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:28 pm 
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wow!

just watched the meffert's youtube video, if my cube had ever turned that well and stayed in shape so well i would have been very happy.

Konrad i don't think your attitude is helping matters here, as even roz says out of the three she had there was one very poor one. I think you need to realise that people who did not get cubes as good as yours are rightly not as happy.


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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:00 pm 
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Zzupler wrote:
wow!

just watched the meffert's youtube video, if my cube had ever turned that well and stayed in shape so well i would have been very happy.

Konrad i don't think your attitude is helping matters here, as even roz says out of the three she had there was one very poor one. I think you need to realise that people who did not get cubes as good as yours are rightly not as happy.
You say, yours is not close, even after correcting the tension?
Then I need two theories:
- What is different between yours and the one in the video? (You have probably recognized, how careful the not turning hand holds the puzzle? Probably, my dexterity is not as good.)
- What has caused the substantial improvement of my Mosaic cube, between out "of the box" (two days ago) and now? (And I would say that mine is now not far fom the one in the video , but at arrival it had looked identical as the picture in Roger's first post.) My theory is: A few thousand moves (that's called dedication, right?) + a lot of good silicone spray. What else? Any suggestions?

If my comments are not "helping matters", what else is helpful then?
If these complaints go on, Uwe will probably leave them "out of stock".
Do you want this?

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:03 pm 
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Wow, how did I miss the Meffert's youTube channel? Incidentally I would give my left arm if my puzzle was even slightly as good as the one in his video.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
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I never said your comments weren't helping matters, i said your attitude wasn't helping - namely "my cube works fine so everyone else's should too" again, i think you need to realise that there may be differences in the quality of the cubes.

Do i want Uwe never to make more of these puzzles? No, of course i would like more made, but of a good quality.

Do you want more cubes made and for more people to have complaints and a lowered opinion of all mefferts cubes?


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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:06 pm 
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Zzupler wrote:
wow!

just watched the meffert's youtube video, if my cube had ever turned that well and stayed in shape so well i would have been very happy.

Konrad i don't think your attitude is helping matters here, as even roz says out of the three she had there was one very poor one. I think you need to realise that people who did not get cubes as good as yours are rightly not as happy.
The thing it, this is a 'squishy' puzzle. Like the Pyraminx Crystal, it's not going to be the greatest turning nor will it necessarily stay in shape very well. It's something I was expecting before I placed my order, and I'm ready for when I receive my puzzle.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:14 pm 
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Zzupler - Amen! I couldn't have said it better myself. What is up with that guy?

VDude - Good description. Squishy puzzle. Yes I understood that too, but mine is beyond squishy that it can't be squished anymore. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:35 pm 
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Cyberdman wrote:
Zzupler - Amen! I couldn't have said it better myself. What is up with that guy?
Cool! How nice and polite :roll:
BTW, I have just disassembled it as Roger had suggested. (Get two adjacent edges and the corresponding centre piece out at once.) Pretty easy.
If I were you, I would start doing this and attack the caps later, if really necessary. Probably, yours is really much worse than the others? :( :( :(

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Last edited by Konrad on Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:44 pm 
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Thank you for your help and I didn't at all mean to be rude, but you were frustrating me and others with your refusal to believe some of us don't have perfect puzzles.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:44 pm 
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Not to stray away from the topic at hand but the hknowstore has more than ten of these available through eBay. I only say this because in this thread and another just like it, people were mad that Meffert's was out of stock.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:07 pm 
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Zzupler wrote:
... i said your attitude wasn't helping - namely "my cube works fine so everyone else's should too" again, i think you need to realise that there may be differences in the quality of the cubes.
My attitude is rather
- Do not expect too much !(See Uwe's original warnings quoted by Rox). I agree with theVdude here.
- Try breaking it in (Roxanne has mentioned that it helped improving the Pyraminx Crystal) and try a good silicone spray (I do not own a single puzzle, mass-produced or custom, where my silicone spray hasn't helped.) Is really nobody out there, who has tried this? My attitude had been to help and to encourage people to use this old-fashioned method. :)

I accept that the puzzles can be different, but what can be different in this case?
I assume that all of our puzzles (including the one in the Meffert's video) are manufactured using the same molds. The pieces will be identical.
The stickers may be misplaced. But we are discussing the turning here.

They can be assembled wrongly. That should be recognizeable and be shown on a photo.
Then, the tension again. OK, maybe you should make more experiments with different tension settings, if yours is really so far from the one in the video.
If you accept it or not, good lubrication can make a big difference too :D
Amen!

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:59 pm 
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Zzupler wrote:
Just broke a piece trying to reassemble my cube after making a video. The little screws holes in each of the "shoes" are very delicate. I will try to glue it back together. I will upload the video if you want to see it but a word of warning, there is a lot of hand!
Handle with care!
The same happened to me. Two pieces like that (with screws) broke appart. I don't really get it why screws were needed and those weren't just glued together
Zzupler wrote:
wow!
just watched the meffert's youtube video, if my cube had ever turned that well and stayed in shape so well i would have been very happy.
Now I got a bit angry too. The cube I have is no near that one. I simply don't understand how that one stays in a cube shape while turning. That's brilliant compared to what I got.
Konrad wrote:
I accept that the puzzles can be different, but what can be different in this case?
I assume that all of our puzzles (including the one in the Meffert's video) are manufactured using the same molds. The pieces will be identical.
The stickers may be misplaced. But we are discussing the turning here.
I highly doubt that! As Mefferts said, there were multiples molds for this product.

"This puzzle has undergone five different prototyping’s and debugging. It has had two complete sets of moulds made for it."

I really think that these first editions that were sent are from the first molds. I think he just wanted to get some of his money back, as he knows very well that there is quite a number of customers that will buy everytime, every new product from him. So selling these was guaranteed. Maybe I sound paranoid, but this is what I think. It's impossible that the products we received were made from the same molds as the one in the clip.

I read this: "Rather than destroy the moulds and abandon this project, we have decided to release it FIRST to Jade club members, with a fantastic responce."
more as:"Rather than destroy the moulds and abandon this project, we have decided to sell what we have to get our invested money back."

And I don't buy that: "I am saying it is a collectors puzzle because we now have no plans to produce it again". I admit, it's a great marketing to sell something bad...just say it's a collector's item, but he might really lose some customers in the future.

Konrad wrote:
If you accept it or not, good lubrication can make a big difference too :D
Amen!
No, it doesn't. The pieces are simply bad and the puzzle cannot stay in a cube shape, nor turn great. Lubrication doesn't have anything to do with this.

By the way, this is not a response to Konrad, as I really appreciate your efforts and replies, but for Meffert. I highly think most of the other people who got the Mosaic cube agree with what I said.

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Last edited by Radu on Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:19 pm 
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First of all, I want to emphatically state that there is only one set of molds being used for these puzzles! The first set did NOT work and was destroyed. Meffert's did not make a run on defective molds, pass them off on you, then make a new set of molds. The first set was destroyed way way back in October! It is unfounded and uninformed statements like these that cause people to get upset.

If you watch both Tony and I playing with the mosaic cubes, you will note that we hold the puzzle firmly in one hand whilst turning it. Neither of these is a production run, but rather a mold test prototype. We got ours, made the videos, made a few comments and they were looked into for fixing. We aren't the only two people who had the samples. In addition to this, you can see in both videos that it doesn't hold a cube shape all the way through. It is a very squishy puzzle!

I am sorry that yours is 'bad', but in future might I suggest you send an email to Meffert's stating your concerns about getting a puzzle from a faulty mold rather than publicly accusing him of selling from those then going on to make better ones. Many people read these threads and over the years I've come to realize that people don't read and comprehend everything. They take in what they want to take in. Your statement is something that could be very damaging to the reputation of the company. Go ahead and make these kinds of claims....and don't cry when no new puzzles are produced.

Oh, and while I'm here, I'll add NOT to buy the Professors Pyraminx. If you can't handle the misalignment of the mosaic, then the little bits that go out of alignment on the Professors Pyraminx will be just one more thing to complain about! Other than that, It's a fantastic puzzle.

I'd also like to ask that everyone cool down a bit. As I was reading this this morning, I was cringing at each additional post. I was really worried it would get out of hand. Thank you for not doing so. I understand everyone gets frustrated, but there really is no need to make accusations or complaints against other members. Some (Konrad) have put a lot of work into making his puzzle better, others (you know who you are) went for the standard speed cubers-lets adjust the tension-first. Each has gone about this in a different way, and none are better than the other. Let's keep it polite shall we?

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:56 am 
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Thanks for the answer Rox. As I said, I appreciate Konrad's and your work to the forum and our complaints are not towards you two or others.
katsmom wrote:
Meffert's did not make a run on defective molds, pass them off on you, then make a new set of molds. The first set was destroyed way way back in October! It is unfounded and uninformed statements like these that cause people to get upset.
Ok. I'm not an expert in casting puzzle. So, as I think what we got is different from what we see in the videos, I supposed some of the products were from the first run. I thought it's the only possibility. Ok, they are not, but you basically confirm what I was trying to say. You show some sample prototypes which were later "corrected". So they are different from what we got. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
katsmom wrote:
If you watch both Tony and I playing with the mosaic cubes, you will note that we hold the puzzle firmly in one hand whilst turning it. Neither of these is a production run, but rather a mold test prototype. We got ours, made the videos, made a few comments and they were looked into for fixing. We aren't the only two people who had the samples.

In addition to this, you can see in both videos that it doesn't hold a cube shape all the way through. It is a very squishy puzzle!
The puzzle from Mefferts Channel is not squishy at all compared to what I have! And zzupler and others stated the same thing. You can read throughout the topic.
katsmom wrote:
...and don't cry when no new puzzles are produced.
I never did that :D. Actually I prefer a puzzle not to be produced, rather than spending the money on a bad one. I prefer spending 3-4 times more money to buy it directly from Oskar or TomZ or the real inventor. And I will also know it's indeed rare and a collectible.
katsmom wrote:
Oh, and while I'm here, I'll add NOT to buy the Professors Pyraminx. If you can't handle the misalignment of the mosaic, then the little bits that go out of alignment on the Professors Pyraminx will be just one more thing to complain about! Other than that, It's a fantastic puzzle.
I already ordered two, but I'm not worried. :) As you can see, I supported and buy from Meffert's almost every time a new puzzle appears. Maybe that's why I was complaining this time.

Have fun!

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:09 am 
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Thank you for your post Roxanne, thank you for clarifying the question of the molds and thank you for reminding us that we are in the same boat, even when some of us choose different methods than others :lol:

What are my conclusions now looking at all of this?
- Only one set of molds has been used for production. (I had not the slightest doubt that this is the case)
- There is no reasonable theory explaining why the two prototypes, Tony and Rox have played with, should have better parts than the production run.
- The result is a "squishy" puzzle and we have got plain warnings that this would be the case.
- The differences between puzzles can be: occasional bad parts (not a good theory explaining the many complaints), different tension.
- "Bad" puzzles can be improved. Different methods can succeed. Future puzzles will come with the caps not glued on. (This is an essential improvement.) The right tension seems to be crucial.

@Radu: I have nothing taken personal from you, but I have felt very sad when I imagined Uwe reading your post. My trust in Uwe Meffert is certainly much higher than yours. I'm very thankful that he has given me / us all those wonderful puzzles at a reasonable price. We are even in a general agreement here, our view is just different in the case of the Mosaic Cube. :)

BTW if I'm just lucky, I have been lucky in many cases :lol: (e.g. I have got a decent C4U Gigaminx, I had no problems with my Vulcano, I got eight Crazy 3x3x3 that are turning great, my Crazy Megaminx is OK, even the stickers on my two Flowerminx were not as bad as others :lol: )

I know that I have said several posts above that I have a high priority project to do. :roll:
This is definitely the last reply to this thread! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:25 am 
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In the latest MeffetsPuzzles video Rox discusses certain Mosaic Cube issues- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWfard3Jf1M

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:27 am 
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*radu: in your post you have attributed several quotes to me that were not mine....would be grateful if you could change them to quote the correct person.


First let me just say: i have only gotten into puzzle solving/collecting in the last 4-5 months - i am not an expert in these matters by any means, i have no interest in speed solving ( i only adjusted the tensions because it seemed like the only option at the time) and the last thing i am trying to do is make enemies here or annoy people, it's a small enough community as it is!

Here as Konrad requested are the videos i made of my cube turning when i was happy with it after adjusting the tensions:

First video: Ignore the caps falling off, i had only just tried putting them on and had not meant for them to be fixed in place permanently, please note i had decided to make another video after viewing this as i wasn't happy with the part where i turn it on the desk.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwO3q90tAfg

Second video: i try to do a video with the cube in my hand from the start but it sticks, just adding it to be a completist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpBw4WCV0a0

Third video: i would have made another video if my cube hadn't broken as i know my hand is in the way too much in this one - sorry!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhUwzRAjuxU

EDIT: Sorry the third link, the one where my cube pops, wasn't working, it should be ok now


The thing i wonder about is earlier in this thread Uwe found one cube out of 6 bad, what exactly was wrong with this cube?
Rox found something wrong with one out of three, again what exactly was wrong? Have you found a way to fix whatever was wrong with these cubes as it is obvious some cubes are turning fine but the people complaining may have received cubes similar to these "bad" ones. If not it is quite a high proportion to have faults.

My final views on the mosaic cube as an average buyer:

Sending the cubes out without the caps glued on will be a big improvement.

I'm not quite sure why the "shoes" are put together with screws as it makes them very delicate...could these pieces not have been glued together (as this is what i will have to do to fix my cube as the place where the screw goes in is broken irreparably - something i think may happen to a few people when they are putting their cubes together due to the amount of pressure needed to put the last piece in)

i wish there had been some more complete advance testing done and reported on before ordinary people started getting these cubes - namely letting people know that tension adjustment wasn't the only option. Perhaps everyone else in the community already knew this but you have to be aware that there may be "occasional" purchasers buying these cubes too because of how great this puzzle looks.

It is a very unusual, beautiful puzzle which far outweighs it's faults, and everyone should get one!


Last edited by Zzupler on Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:33 am 
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My original prototype-same molds, but earlier batch before adjustments-was way too loose. It just fell apart as I turned it. I think that was what was happening to other people who tried them as well. I'm guessing this is the reason for the tightening of the screws.

I think this was the last thing Uwe was working on before he made the order for selling them. The tightening, or rather over-tightening was probably compensation for the looseness of the early puzzles.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:49 am 
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katsmom wrote:

I have had 3 of these in my hands this week. One turned beautifully right out of the packaging. One had a piece pop out consistently, and one was very tight and stiff. Two of them I have, one I returned to Uwe. I took the one I disassembled back to Uwe because I couldn't get the last pieces in. As we looked at it, we realized there was a flaw in the part. Now he believes that is a rare occurrence, but is going to give it to the engineers at the factory to take a look at.



sorry, i'm a bit confussed! :lol: are these three from an earlier production run or are they from the run that got sent out?


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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:28 am 
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All three came in this week. Two on Tuesday, one of which I broke. Uwe replaced it on Thursday. So three from this production run.
I still have my prototype too. and yes, it is still to loose to be really usable. The bug can't turn it because it "gets too wonky in my small hands mom" :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:37 am 
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So, from the puzzles you have from this production run that people are getting: the one that you broke, how did you break it?
From this production run, the one that had a piece popping out consistently; did tightening the tensions fix this problem?

Thanks for your time in answering my questions :D


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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:02 am 
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the one I broke, I broke because I was trying to make a disassembly video and pulled it wrong. I am sure this was my fault entirely, and not the fault of the puzzle-I wasn't paying attention and pulled out a couple of those little leg bits and stripped the ends.

The tight one seems to have loosened up a bit with playing, the loose one I did no tightening to. It's sitting in a box under my desk because there is simply no more room ON my desk for it :lol: :lol:

You have to remember, I have had this puzzle for a while and have had fun playing with it. I was happy with my prototype until I saw Tony's with the florescent stickers (I have to get a set of those!) I only made the video at the behest of Uwe because of the complaints. I do hope you all will believe my positioning and that it does get looser with play.

*I had done a video of the professors pyraminx last night, but my computer at work, while fast, had some problem today when I had the camera hooked up. It deleted the all files when it rebooted itself. I'll attempt to do another this weekend and send it to Tony. Hopefully he will think it's ok and put it up.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:35 am 
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Thanks for having the patience to answer all my questions rox!
I hope i didn't annoy people too much :lol:

If you decide to get this beautiful puzzle i hope you have lots of fun with it!


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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:02 am 
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Mr. Meffert's should improve his customer service and the quality of his puzzles. This is probably the last puzzle that I buy from his company:

- my Fisher cube came cracked
- in my third day with the skewb the little metal balls started to fall off (and I'm not a rough/speed user)
- my gear cube came with an annoying problem: as I simply turn the puzzle, caps start to fall off.
- no response from at least 3 e-mails that I sent.
- I tried to buy the Volcano and got charged of 2 dollars... and coudn't complete my purchase.

Great. after seeing these videos, I give up.
Saying that a puzzle is not fit for "speed cubbing" I can understand, but from the videos you could see that it turned to be just a piece of furniture.


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