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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 5:06 am 
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HeavyTanHat wrote:
I tried just screwing them into the ball core as is, but I could not get enough tension to get them in well, so my plan tonight is to make a jig that will hold the base of the corner but allow the cap to pass through and knock the cap off using a hammer and punch on the exposed end of the screw. Hopefully that will knock them off cleanly and not put a hole in the corner cap.

Hammers? That sounds like a great way to ruin a puzzle! :cry:


For the Mosaic caps, you need to use a thick blade to pry the cap off. The glue on the puzzles is very brittle. The disposable box cutter blade I used was pretty thick. It is a steel plate which is precision machine cut at a very sharp angle. I just pushed it into the groove, and it acts as a wedge, lifting up the cap and creating a great tensile force on the glue with relatively little effort. Then a loud cracking sound as the glue breaks.

alaskajoe wrote:
Quote:
I had actually gashed my thumb pretty bad attempting to pull a Pyraminx cap off with my bare fingers.

Wow. No wonder you hurt yourself I think. It took me half an hour with a swiss knife and after I had a millimeter of plastic taken off in the gap.
LOL. When you put incredible force on something until it snaps, the movement is sometimes rapid and violent! :shock: No worries: I simply blotted it on a paper towel and went back to work. No first aid kit necessary - I guess maybe I am an animal. 8-)

alaskajoe wrote:
:P Plus your pyraminx's core is awesome. :lol:
LOL, thanks for the complement! :mrgreen: I couldn't believe it when I discovered the parts fit so well together like that...

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 9:06 am 
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stardust4ever wrote:
Hammers? That sounds like a great way to ruin a puzzle!


Just the opposite actually. :D Once I made a cut into each corner of the seam between the corner and the cap a few taps with a nail set and a hammer popped the caps off with no damage. I didn't even break any pegs, so all the caps snap back on fairly well.

With the ball core the cube is definitely better if not perfect. It sill gets distorted out of square easily, but not nearly as bad as with the original core and has not locked up due to the distortion yet. It has however popped twice which I never experienced with the original core. I believe this is because the tension is quite loose due to the corner posts bottoming out in the wells in the ball core. I plan to sand about 1mm off each post so the springs will actually tension the mech. Hopefully that will allow me to find the sweet spot between the too tight original core and the currently too loose ball core.


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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 1:17 pm 
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HeavyTanHat wrote:
stardust4ever wrote:
Hammers? That sounds like a great way to ruin a puzzle!
Just the opposite actually. :D Once I made a cut into each corner of the seam between the corner and the cap a few taps with a nail set and a hammer popped the caps off with no damage. I didn't even break any pegs, so all the caps snap back on fairly well.
Today, I have got notice that I can keep the two additional Mosaic puzzles I had mentioned above. I have immediately ordered a ball core from Shapeways.
It is not the case, that I'm not content with the current turning, I just wanted to be able to make a fair comparison.
I started immediately with the disassembly.
I had disassembled the moving pieces of my first Mosaic cube before and thought that would be easy. It seems that the new (black) Mosaic cube was very tight and when I applied some force, the thing exploded somehow. I looked for (literally) hours until I had found the last piece at a very unexpected place. (For a while a have developed the theory that a ghost had eaten it up :lol: )
So, be careful, even doing this simple first step.
Looking at those last posts, I decided to try your hammer method.
Not such a good decision! :(
It is really not so easy. It took me quite a while to get the first corner out of the destroyed core. The material is quite strong, really.
After getting the first cap off, I decided to try to remove the remaining caps using a strong Exacto knife.
This has worked quite fine! :)
In the very first case I have injured one of the pegs a bit. The others came out well enough.
I do not know, if different workers use different amount of superglue or what makes the difference.
My recommendation is clearly: Go for the caps, the destruction of the core is not such a great idea.
Use a strong Exacto knife and put the tip of the knife into the middle of the triangular base of the caps (between corners and caps). Try to avoid cutting through the pegs!
Have a careful look at the earlier photos to understand what I mean by "middle".

In any case, I'm now ready for the Shapeways delivery announced for 10 days from now.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 9:44 am 
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I received my ball core a few days ago.

I twisted the corners off the core easily with a bit of pressure on opposite corners.

The caps were varied in their ease of removal. Some popped off easily and others were stuck firm and very difficult. The glue on some went right around the `female` shaft and I had to break that completely off, while the `male` piece remained intact. I tried a bit of a different strategy with some, I think it worked a bit, but I can’t really know. I pulled the stickers off with a plastic razor blade and soaked the corners in water for 48 hrs, to try to weaken the superglue. The stickers are strong and not easily damaged, I just stuck them to an old backing for reuse without damage.

Results:

I found that I had to adjust the screws quite tight and just back them off a pinch, otherwise it pops easily. And I stuck the caps on with blue tack so that I can readjust the tension.

I am happy with the result. It was worth it for me. It now acts like you would expect. I can hand hold it and turn any layer without bracing other parts of the cube. I can turn the `inside layer` on its own without bracing the cube. It may occasionally catch another piece, but no more than another puzzle. IMO it is a lot better, and I think I had a good one initially.

The cube also holds a much stronger shape. It can still `crush` if you push it in on the edges intentionally, but if you just treat it normally and hold it by the corners more, it doesn’t crush.

It was a bit painful to remove the caps, and you have to `want to do it`, and be careful not to cut yourself. I would have appreciated Mefferts even selling the corners to people who buy the core?

Thankyou Oscar for making this available for us,
Burgo.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 9:58 am 
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I think Meffert's should sell the Mosaic cubes with the ball core inside. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 11:07 am 
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Quote:
I think Meffert's should sell the Mosaic cubes with the ball core inside.


I second that.

Robert

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 6:37 pm 
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77mouser wrote:
I think Meffert's should sell the Mosaic cubes with the ball core inside. :)


I think they would if they did another production run, but they just did one if I remember correctly. If they did have it inside, I would hope they leave access to the screws by not gluing the caps on -blue tack works-, because from my experience you would want to tweak it with the ball core. The difference between popping and too tight is finiky. And with some wearing in it might change even?

Until then there is a large part of the community who might like to do something about the one they have? Maybe people have moved on? I don't know. I know selling corners alone may not be possible though (because of production), but if enough people wanted them they might consider a small production run.. Maybe Mefferts could address it in a newsletter to find out how many? By now I'm sure Uwe has a headache :( , but I love that he is getting interesting puzzles out there :D .

I think it is worth doing.

Cheers,
Burgo.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 7:27 pm 
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I know this is kind of off-topic, but I now understand why my Mefferts Gear Cube's caps won't pop off... I cut my self trying to get one off and gave up.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 7:47 pm 
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Nothing says it like a video:
ball core review
Cheers,
Burgo.
PS Just to let you know: I was holding it as loosely by the corners as I coud, trying not to support any edges.

UPDATE:
I am having some popping issues with the blue tack holding the caps on (without the caps or with loose caps, it pops easily), especially on `one edge` that came apart badly. I think I am going to have to use a few small drops of superglue strategically placed so I can get it apart later if need be. Unlike the Crazy Planet Cubes, there is not really much room to get the blue tack away from the screw and spring.

UPDATE 2:
Here's a little something else to try out: While you've got it apart, try a little bit of cotton wool or other packing in the hole in the ball core, between the hole and the shaft of the corner piece, to add some friction to stop it turning so easily. It stops corner pieces turning in the opposite direction when you initiate a turn of an inside layer. And it really cleans up the movement. In the video the blue tack in the caps was achieving this by sticking to the screw heads, when I removed it I had to come up with something else. Maybe someone will have a better idea of what to use.

UPDATE 3:
I'm also finding that, even though I adjusted the tension tighter than I initially wanted it (to allow for it to wear in) with use it has quickly become too loose again. I think the screws must be backing out? Is loctite compatible with `black strong & flexible`plastic? I might have to open it up again. I'm getting less happy :roll: .


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1st 3x3 solve Oct 2010 (Even though I lived through the 80s).
PB 3x3 55sec Jan 2011 (When I was a kid 1:30 was speedcubing so I'm stoked).
1st 3x3 Earth (nemesis) solve Jan 2011 My You Tube (Now has ALLCrazy 3X3 Planets with Reduction)
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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:54 am 
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Yesterday, I have received my ball core. (Shapeways have taken their time, really :roll: )
Today, I have assembled it.
It turns clearly better than its unchanged brother, but the big question is: Is the improvement worth the effort?
I'm not yet sure! (Especially looking at Burgo's issues.)
I'll edit this post after a while, when I have some history to talk about.
Burgo wrote:
...
UPDATE:
I am having some popping issues with the blue tack holding the caps on (without the caps or with loose caps, it pops easily), especially on `one edge` that came apart badly.
I have made an experiment using Blue Tack on one corner and have decided immediately to use superglue. Blue Tack seems not adequate to me. I have used Tony Fisher's nail method to pick up tiny drops of superglue with a little nail and have applied those tiny drops. So far, the corners are OK.
Burgo wrote:
I think I am going to have to use a few small drops of superglue strategically placed so I can get it apart later if need be. Unlike the Crazy Planet Cubes, there is not really much room to get the blue tack away from the screw and spring.

UPDATE 2:
Here's a little something else to try out: While you've got it apart, try a little bit of cotton wool or other packing in the hole in the ball core, between the hole and the shaft of the corner piece, to add some friction to stop it turning so easily.
So far, I have not had this problem and have not done anything special. I do not expect at all that the outer corner stays in place, when I do an inner layer turn. Maybe, your little trick with the cotton wool makes the screws loose over time, when you turn the outer corners on its own?
Burgo wrote:
...
UPDATE 3:
I'm also finding that, even though I adjusted the tension tighter than I initially wanted it (to allow for it to wear in) with use it has quickly become too loose again. I think the screws must be backing out? Is loctite compatible with `black strong & flexible`plastic? I might have to open it up again. I'm getting less happy :roll: .
I have tightened the screws completely, meaning, I cannot get them tighter at all. Probably, I should have shortened the springs, even ? It would not hurt, if the puzzle gets a little tighter.

It is surprising me that so few report about the ball core. :o
After the many complaints, I had expected that many would try it.

What have I learnt so far:
- I would not destroy the original core. At least in my case the corners came off pretty easily.
- I would not use Blue Tack (I had ordered it especially for the Mosaic Cube :( Maybe it comes in handy at another occasion.)
- I would shorten the springs a bit. If the screws are getting looser over time, I'll glue them into the core.
- I would dye the ball black. I have not done it, because I thought it unnecessary, but now I can see some white, from time to time, when turning the puzzle.

My personal opinion has not changed much over time. I'm really glad that this puzzle exists and I would rather rather have it with a few issues than not have it at all.
I have now three Mosaic cubes:
- No 1: My original black one, completely unchanged. Turning is close to the ball core version. (Sometimes, I have difficulties to recognize which is which, when I pick one up randomly.)
- No 2: A second black with a (white :( so far) ball core. Turning a bit better than No 1! (Current state. My son has confirmed my opinion.)
- No 3: A white one that is turning less well than the other two. It is still acceptable. Maybe this is generic for the white ones? (I could a hint from someone who shuld know.)

I recommend to everybody who is still unhappy with his / her Mosaic cube:
Go to the Shapeways site and look up the Fadi cube. Admire the price of it and have in mind that the Fadi turns worse than the mass-produced Mosaic cube (Oskar's own words in an email to me. He has allowed me to quote him.) Cheer up :D
And if this has not made you happy, order the ball core :)

EDIT: I have made little edits above.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:54 pm 
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Hi Konrad,
Thanks for the report.

Just to clarify `after some time`. The ball core has improved my cube from: not being able to hand hold it without really struggling, to: hand holding it with relative ease.

In my post where I was searching for a method to stiffen the corners, this was only to attempt to get the `remarkable` turning like in the video. In the end I have done nothing and it is OK. The turning would be `100%` with a little stiffer corners (maybe no springs at all, the corners turned onto spacers, but I don't care to pull it apart again), with the corners as they are turning is 90%, without the ball core 50%.

They should sell replacement corners to make the task easy, I think then people would take it on?

Cheers,
Burgo.

PS The blue tac will be handy for your 3x3 planet cube centre caps, just don't get it on the screws :wink:.
PPS I now `really` enjoy solving it and it has become one of my `favourite` cubes to solve :D.

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:46 am 
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wow, this topic is too technical and complex for my poor english, but i need your hint:
if i buy NOW a mosaic cube from meffert or jadeclub (new version, right?), i receive a good puzzle or i risk to receive a distorted puzzle like this?
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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:38 am 
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sasĂ 41 wrote:
wow, this topic is too technical and complex for my poor english, but i need your hint:
if i buy NOW a mosaic cube from meffert or jadeclub (new version, right?), i receive a good puzzle or i risk to receive a distorted puzzle like this?
...
I guess the "new" version has not changed much. I have got a twin set as a gift a few weeks ago and it is not much different from the "original" I have got via Jade as early as possible.
All three of my puzzles have improved over time - just by lubrication and breaking in, nothing else.
The ball core you can order from Shapeways is certainly a huge step forward.
I have now solved the puzzle with the ball core several times. It is really smooth. I have tested it with several persons. All have said that is much better.

You have the choice:
- Order it now, lubricate and break it in with some patience. If you are not satisfied, order the ball core from Shapeways for another $ 25. That means some work (especially getting off the caps). Please, have a look at the many posts about this subject above. In my case, it was not so hard and the caps came off quite well.
or
- Wait for a mass-produced puzzle with ball core. (I do not know, though, how long you have to wait :wink: Maybe, forever?)

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:45 am 
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certainly i dont buy a extra core for 25$, but what do you mean with "break it"?
i dont need a puzzle for speedcubing, just a decent-turn

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 Post subject: Re: Mosaic Cube tension adjustment
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:14 am 
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sasĂ 41 wrote:
certainly i dont buy a extra core for 25$, but what do you mean with "break it"?
i dont need a puzzle for speedcubing, just a decent-turn
"Break in a puzzle" means: turn the turnable layers many times (e.g. while watching TV movies :) ) Regarding the Mosaic Cube, many (including) myself) have reported that it helps improving this puzzle. Others have not been satisfied by the Mosaic cube at all. I can talk about the three I have, only. All turn acceptable, the one with the ball core is really good. I'm not able to predict, what your opinion will be.

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