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 Post subject: Mirror Blocks has been copied >:(
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:32 pm
Location: Orangevale, CA
Source: http://bbs.mf8.com.cn/viewthread.php?tid=23694

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:evil:
Inevitably it has happened.


Last edited by Jin H Kim on Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
Restored due to my error


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 Post subject: Re: Mirror Blocks has been copied >:(
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:05 pm
Location: Fort Meade, MD
Sigh...
There has to be somthing that can be done about this right? :(


It looks like some of the people that saw it in real life said the quality is terrible.
I'm no great shakes at the language though...

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 Post subject: Re: Mirror Blocks has been copied >:(
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:31 am
Location: Greece, Australia, Thailand, India, Singapore.
Yes, there are many things to be done here. By finding and reporting (to the corresponding authorities -
for example, distribution host sites, ebay, wholesalers in countries which have a patent etc) those copycats
will have nowhere to sell, and their business will have loss, not profit.

I am not stating a short term solution here, but a long term. And the more of us participate to that, the better.
As I have stated many times, this type of copying gives the copycat label to all Chinese, and will also hit legitimate
businesses in China.


Pantazis

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 Post subject: Re: Mirror Blocks has been copied >:(
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2000 3:17 pm
Location: Hong Kong
It's nice to see the KO police are quick on the job. 7 minutes to edit! Well done.

Now, a question. If I update the void cube pictures with what is now available, will I be edited too? I'm talking comparison, not where you can get them. How can I put this, they are getting better and harder to spot. My lovely husband just bought home a couple for me and I really couldn't tell the difference on first glance, but after further inspection it is obvious which are the KO's.

Jin, can you let me know if this would violate the policy. If so, I won't update with photos.

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 Post subject: Re: Mirror Blocks has been copied >:(
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:04 pm 
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Location: Orange County, CA, USA
As long as the pictures do not contain embedded URLs that directly link the puzzles to a seller's site you are fine. Also as long as the pictures themselves are not direct links to the seller's site. And of course you can't just post the link to the seller's site either. A puzzle unwrapped or in a generic package is also not a problem.

Generally speaking knockoffs don't proudly display the name of the knockoff maker although there are exceptions. If you're concerned about the possibility that the name may lead to a direct google search for the seller then you could always cover the questionable part with a piece of a post-it note. In fact I think I might have a bunch around here I can send to you...

And just to make a point, I did act rashly without really paying attention. My apologies to the original poster, whose post has been restored.

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 Post subject: Re: Mirror Blocks has been copied >:(
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:52 am 
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Oh that is pretty sickening... Not only have they copied a great puzzle, but they've also copied Gentosha's great Void Cube packaging... I seriously hope this get taken care of quickly...


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 Post subject: Re: Mirror Blocks has been copied >:(
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:51 am 
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Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands
The rumours had been floating around for a while. Looks like Mf8 have at least produced a prototype. Now we just have to hope they can't find buyers... Mf8 seems to mostly sell to shops and wholesalers, not directly to customers, so the buyers they should be worried about are those representatives. If you happen to know any retail puzzle store buyers, ask them to boycott.[1]

On the other hand, Mirror Blocks is a rubiks.com product and rubiks.com has an extremely long history of selling things that are far more expensive than lesser quality knockoffs of the same thing, while doing really well -- so we can also hope that Rubiks.com will manage to make Mirror Blocks a success no matter what Mf8 does.

Tangentially, does anyone happen to know what mf8 stands for? It almost sounds like a 'G8' style association of 8 ManuFacturing businesses pooling their "R&D" (Hah! Industrial espionage, more likely) funds.


[1] Okay, the odds of anyone knowing such a person and also not having thought of that independently are astronomically low.


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 Post subject: Re: Mirror Blocks has been copied >:(
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:57 am 
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Location: Hong Kong
I agree with you 100% about the boycot, but the problem with this is as follows.
1) I have spoken to both puzzle sellers here in HK. One agreed that it was a bad iddea to sell KO cubes. The other has taken the stand that the KO manufacturers have to start somewhere and by allowing them to make KO's they learn and can produce better puzzles in the future. I tried everything but beating his head in with a club to get him to understand the problems with that logic but it just didn't work.
2) HK is technically part of China and I had a student who is studying law research this for me. As long as there is a patent on the Mainland and it does not specifically state "for (fuzzy translation here guys) Mainland sales only" they can export it to HK, Macau, AND Taiwan (now I know all the Americans out there are saying Taiwan is NOT a part of China, but try telling that to the Chinese (Maniland China) Government!) as well as any other country China claims they have Sovereignty over. (And yes, I DO know that Taiwan is a part of GREECE)
3) The manufacturers are small companies that are privately owned, and via the same law student, currently foreigners can only sue government factories and companies, not those owned by individuals. China is trying to expand, and they think this will help in the creation of a new middle class and new industry.
4) People always find ways around rules that aren't strictly enforced!

And FYI Jin, I would not list the company name or address of where a KO was available. I don't think I ever have. And Thank you for answering my question. Pictures and an update will come tomorrow as it is quite late here tonight. And by the way, it is the same company producing the KO 7x7 and the KO bump. Not Mf8, but a different name all together. I am guessing that Mf8 is a household name for a webbased conglamoration of forums in China so something of a household name there. I have a feeling the manufacturer of many of these KO puzzles is gambling on that and putting it on the puzzles to build an association with something people already know. (But this isn't fact, it's just a speculation.)

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Last edited by katsmom on Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mirror Blocks has been copied >:(
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:25 am 
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DragonCuber wrote:
Oh that is pretty sickening... Not only have they copied a great puzzle, but they've also copied Gentosha's great Void Cube packaging... I seriously hope this get taken care of quickly...


That packaging was revolutionary! Seriously, and anything revolutionary will be copied. Walking down one of my favorite streets, I have seen 7x7's, voids and 3x3-5x5's in it. Granted, these are all coming from the same company, so it may be that only one place is copying it, but it is really starting to show up now! And as I've said before, the only thing that happens quickly in China is executions. This packaging is here to stay for a while now.

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 Post subject: Re: Mirror Blocks has been copied >:(
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:46 am 
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Location: GZ, China
JasperJ wrote:
The rumours had been floating around for a while. Looks like Mf8 have at least produced a prototype. Now we just have to hope they can't find buyers... Mf8 seems to mostly sell to shops and wholesalers, not directly to customers, so the buyers they should be worried about are those representatives. If you happen to know any retail puzzle store buyers, ask them to boycott.

Tangentially, does anyone happen to know what mf8 stands for? It almost sounds like a 'G8' style association of 8 ManuFacturing businesses pooling their "R&D" (Hah! Industrial espionage, more likely) funds.


First, these knockoff Mirror Cubes are not produced by MF8. MF8 is primarily a forum.

In Chinese, 'Magic Cube' is called 'Mo Fang' (魔方). 'Mo' means 'magic', and 'fang' means 'cube'. And 8 stand for 'bar', since '8' and 'bar' sounds the same in chinese. So MF8 means a magic cube bar, and is primarily a forum, though it did produce some puzzles, such as Super Square-1.

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 Post subject: Re: Mirror Blocks has been copied >:(
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:23 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:28 pm
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands
All right, so mf8 is essentially just a branding used by a certain company. Is the forum consulted about their name being put on all these puzzles (starting with the mf8 megaminxes)?


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 Post subject: Re: Mirror Blocks has been copied >:(
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:30 pm 
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Incidentally, did anyone else report to Ebay or other authorities the counterfeit Void cubes being sold there?
I bought a void cube advertized as "gentosha" void cube from a chinese seller, and it arrived with Magic Cube packaging... :shock:
That was before I learned that Knock offs void cubes were out there.

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 Post subject: Re: Mirror Blocks has been copied >:(
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:54 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:47 pm
Location: Tokushima, Japan
Already many puzzlers spoke instead of me, then I don't write again about my very sadness feelings.
Strangely, the problem appeared when I returned to my parent's home, there is no network. X-(
At the time, I got an e-mail directly from Mr.Okamoto, about the fake Mirror Blocks.
He is very angry, than me. But I was very sad before angry. Because the "fake Void problem" unemployed now.

Of course, already I notified to Mega-House, and Seven Towns.
We need to teach for them, about "violate any rights are bad" for those fake makers, only by laws of world-wide.

Before Mr.Fisher said, "works not to make copies but to make new puzzles."
I think so. They made very nice puzzle "Super Square-1", then if they wanted, I could take my idea for them.

I was really afflicted by the fake Mirror Blocks, "I continue to make any new puzzles, or retire from making puzzles ?"
But I am encouraged from some person's e-mails, and these contributions.
And really I have interest to make any puzzles. :)

Of course, I and Mr.Okamoto will be taken ruthless correspondence to those fake problems.

Again, we wish not to buy those fake cubes.

Best regards,
Hidetoshi Takeji

P.S. I removed my abusive cursedness. I became so intense.

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 Post subject: Re: Mirror Blocks has been copied >:(
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:07 pm 
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Hidetoshi wrote:
Already many puzzlers spoke instead of me, then I don't write again about my very sadness feelings.
Strangely, the problem appeared when I returned to my parent's home, there is no network. X-(
At the time, I got an e-mail directly from Mr.Okamoto, about the fake Mirror Blocks.
He is very angry, than me. But I was very sad before angry. Because the "fake Void problem" unemployed now.

Of course, already I notified to Mega-House, and Seven Towns.
We need to teach for them, about "violate any rights are bad" for those fake makers, only by laws of world-wide.

Before Mr.Fisher said, "works not to make copies but to make new puzzles."
I think so. They made very nice puzzle "Super Square-1", then if they wanted, I could take my idea for them.

I was really afflicted by the fake Mirror Blocks, "I continue to make any new puzzles, or retire from making puzzles ?"
But I am encouraged from some person's e-mails, and these contributions.
And really I have interest to make any puzzles. :)

Of course, I and Mr.Okamoto will be taken ruthless correspondence to those fake problems.

Again, we wish not to buy those fake cubes.

Best regards,
Hidetoshi Takeji

P.S. I removed my abusive cursedness. I became so intense.


As I have taken some study in the Japanese language, I know the sentence structure is completely different, but I couldn't understand a single sentence as a whole. Though I did manage a gist. And you are right. Seven Towns may have the largest chance.


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 Post subject: Re: Mirror Blocks has been copied >:(
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:45 pm 
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Blazemann wrote:
As I have taken some study in the Japanese language, I know the sentence structure is completely different, but I couldn't understand a single sentence as a whole.


Sorry for my poor English, I can't write well about my mind.
Roughly, 66 percents are sadness, 33 percents are angry, and 1 percent are hope to change their (making fake) culture.

Fortunately, and unfortunately, Japan is near from China, then we know some fake / copy / imitation items news. Then we are accustomed to those fake problems. Then, when I talked the fake cube news to my friends, almost friends said, "Oh, again, but they are Chinese..."

Blazemann wrote:
Though I did manage a gist. And you are right. Seven Towns may have the largest chance.


But then, almost Japanese included I and Mr.Okamoto know "Perhaps extirpating those fakes is so difficult."
Most difficult reason is, they don't have the consciousness of crime about making fakes.
Then, we need to "teach" about it for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Mirror Blocks has been copied >:(
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:27 pm 
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Hidetoshi wrote:
Blazemann wrote:
As I have taken some study in the Japanese language, I know the sentence structure is completely different, but I couldn't understand a single sentence as a whole.


Sorry for my poor English, I can't write well about my mind.
Roughly, 66 percents are sadness, 33 percents are angry, and 1 percent are hope to change their (making fake) culture.


Yes, I would have trouble even changing my mind using a code, but to a whole other language I can only imagine the difficulty. I am sorry if I came off wrong or rude on this comment, I was contacted and told I may have.

To the rest of your statment:

The Japanese of the puzzle making business is less known, Seven Towns(Hungarian, US, UK) is quite popular for the standard Rubik's Cube, so they should be first contacted. As you ARE the main builder commonly known in Japan, I wouldn't know anything of your ideals. I am a mere student, and not one of laws and justice, so I make a leave in this topic.

Good luck to you all.


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 Post subject: Re: Mirror Blocks has been copied >:(
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:59 pm 
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Blazemann wrote:
I am sorry if I came off wrong or rude on this comment, I was contacted and told I may have.

No, your point is correctly, because I can't use English well, especially delicate expressions.

Blazemann wrote:
The Japanese of the puzzle making business is less known, Seven Towns(Hungarian, US, UK) is quite popular for the standard Rubik's Cube, so they should be first contacted.

Ah, it's not problem, because Mega-House is official "Rubik's cube" seller, and usually contact frequently to Seven Towns.
And most problem is, "My English is so poor to tell those delicate problems."
Then I left those problems and to contact Seven Towns to them.

Not delicate contacts likely us, when I mistook any words, only need to apologize "Sorry for my mistake".
But delicate problems don't accept those apologize and I am inexperienced about these problems, then your point is quite correct.
And they are experienced about these problems. ;)

Blazemann wrote:
As you ARE the main builder commonly known in Japan, I wouldn't know anything of your ideals.

Usually I said for any persons, (fortunately my puzzle are sold,) I'm only one of custom puzzle builder, not "main".
If you think so, it's a little different. Because Mr.Okamoto is my master.
...Sorry, it's a little presumptuous, correctly he is GOD for me.

And my main job is office work. Making puzzles are only one of my hobbies. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Mirror Blocks has been copied >:(
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:22 am 
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I forgot to announce, this is official copy(?). ;)

Attachment:
File comment: Book Store version.
bookstoreMB.jpg
bookstoreMB.jpg [ 21.56 KiB | Viewed 4478 times ]

Before rectangler prism type is toy store version, and this hexagonal prism type is book store version.
...But I didn't look it at neighbor book stores. X-)

And I didn't look before toy store type and Mr.Okamoto's Void cube directly at neighbor stores too. What a country here is ! X-P

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 Post subject: Re: Mirror Blocks has been copied >:(
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:02 pm 
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Seems like ebay is mass flooded with mirror blocks, silver and golden too.
Given their prices, they very likely knockoffs.
There are from many sellers, starting from as low as usd 0.01 - with free shipping.
Is this the end of the innocence?...


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 Post subject: Re: Mirror Blocks has been copied >:(
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:26 am 
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maques wrote:
Is this the end of the innocence?...


Perhaps...


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 Post subject: Re: Mirror Blocks has been copied >:(
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:14 am 
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Well, it seems that copyrighted puzzles (void cube, mirror blocks, Rubik's 360(?)), are now being copied in mass
and many chinese ebay "shops" have popped out. It is almost out of control!

On the other side, the fakes of patented puzzles (V-cubes) are already gone! I cannot seem to find any more fakes,
as much as I tried searching!

Maybe China *is* taking serious measures for the PCT (patented) products. But sadly, there is no protection for the rest.


Pantazis

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