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 Post subject: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:44 am 
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Over the last year or so Uwe Meffert has told us he won't be making The Halpern-Meier Pyramid (from a mini Skewb mechanism) or The Master Pyraminx. The reason as I recall for the Master Pyraminx was fragility which I know some people questioned seeing as Katsuhiko's seems fine. I do not recall a reason given for the Halpern-Meier Pyramid. In addition when we first discussed my Golden Cube it was going to be made from a mini Skewb mechanism. As you will know he then decided not to. The reason I was given is that it would be too costly.
I might be a bit slow but I only just realised the common element. It is of cause the mini Skewb mechanism. I have now asked Uwe about this and he tells me the mechanism itself is too fragile and has a high breakage rate. Now I understand.

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Last edited by Tony Fisher on Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:57 am 
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It's a terrible shame that he won't produce the master pyraminx, but I respect his reasoning behind it. And you're telling us all we could of had a Mini Golden Cube? :lol: That would of been sweet, it's a shame the mini skewb mech is quite fragile also...

Anyway, let's look on the bright side...

Do you know what he is thinking about producing? :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:54 am 
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I didn't realize that the H-M Pyramid had been cancelled permanently. I think the last update I saw was that it was being considered for 2009. Too bad - I was looking forward to that one.


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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:54 pm 
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merlintocs wrote:
I didn't realize that the H-M Pyramid had been cancelled permanently. I think the last update I saw was that it was being considered for 2009. Too bad - I was looking forward to that one.


Sorry I didn't know that. My discussion only concerned making them from the mini Skewb mechanism so my wording may have been wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:58 pm 
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Is it possible to improve the strength of the mini skewb mechanism? I'm sure lots of people on this forum would have some good ideas that could perhaps be passed along to Mr. Meffert.

-d


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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:49 pm 
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Would the mini skewb mechanism be any better with, say, V-cube plastic? As I understand the plastic in V-cubes is a bit more elastic then standard ABS. Maybe the shape itself could be modified (thicken the weaker areas?) to make it more sturdy...

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:31 pm 
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If the mini-skewb mechanism is too fragile for constructing a H-M Pyramid, why not just use a full-size skewb mechanism? Surely an abnormally large puzzle is preferable to no puzzle or one that is easy to break.

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:37 pm 
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Jeffery Mewtamer wrote:
If the mini-skewb mechanism is too fragile for constructing a H-M Pyramid, why not just use a full-size skewb mechanism? Surely an abnormally large puzzle is preferable to no puzzle or one that is easy to break.

i love big puzzles


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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:34 pm 
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eye2eye wrote:
Jeffery Mewtamer wrote:
If the mini-skewb mechanism is too fragile for constructing a H-M Pyramid, why not just use a full-size skewb mechanism? Surely an abnormally large puzzle is preferable to no puzzle or one that is easy to break.

i love big puzzles


Big puzzles are nice (especially for modding!), but I often spend all day on campus. Big puzzles take up too much space in my already full backpack, so I really only have a keychain 3x3x3 (that's attached to my USB memory drive) that I play with sometimes. It'd be nice to have a little more variety sometimes :)

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:39 pm 
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Jeffery Mewtamer wrote:
If the mini-skewb mechanism is too fragile for constructing a H-M Pyramid, why not just use a full-size skewb mechanism? Surely an abnormally large puzzle is preferable to no puzzle or one that is easy to break.


That's originally what I was working on with Uwe Meffert but he thinks it is just too big.

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:25 am 
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It would almost seem like a medium sized skewb mechanism might be worth making... Something not quite as fragile but not so big that various mods would be impractical.

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:17 am 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
Jeffery Mewtamer wrote:
If the mini-skewb mechanism is too fragile for constructing a H-M Pyramid, why not just use a full-size skewb mechanism? Surely an abnormally large puzzle is preferable to no puzzle or one that is easy to break.


That's originally what I was working on with Uwe Meffert but he thinks it is just too big.


Surely it wouldn't be much bigger than a Pyraminx?


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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:31 am 
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Jared wrote:
Tony Fisher wrote:
Jeffery Mewtamer wrote:
If the mini-skewb mechanism is too fragile for constructing a H-M Pyramid, why not just use a full-size skewb mechanism? Surely an abnormally large puzzle is preferable to no puzzle or one that is easy to break.


That's originally what I was working on with Uwe Meffert but he thinks it is just too big.


Surely it wouldn't be much bigger than a Pyraminx?

With a full size skewb it is much bigger than a pyraminx

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:40 am 
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Jared wrote:
Tony Fisher wrote:
Jeffery Mewtamer wrote:
If the mini-skewb mechanism is too fragile for constructing a H-M Pyramid, why not just use a full-size skewb mechanism? Surely an abnormally large puzzle is preferable to no puzzle or one that is easy to break.


That's originally what I was working on with Uwe Meffert but he thinks it is just too big.


Surely it wouldn't be much bigger than a Pyraminx?


A normal-size Skewb is *already* bigger than a Pyraminx. I've seen a Halpern-Meier made from a keychain skewb and it's basically pyraminx size, so you can expect a full-size HM (or Master Pyraminx) to be about twice that big.

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:28 am 
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Jared wrote:
Tony Fisher wrote:
Jeffery Mewtamer wrote:
If the mini-skewb mechanism is too fragile for constructing a H-M Pyramid, why not just use a full-size skewb mechanism? Surely an abnormally large puzzle is preferable to no puzzle or one that is easy to break.


That's originally what I was working on with Uwe Meffert but he thinks it is just too big.


Surely it wouldn't be much bigger than a Pyraminx?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL7WYn_RS68

Approx 15.5cm / 6.1 inch edge

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:29 am 
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qqwref wrote:
A normal-size Skewb is *already* bigger than a Pyraminx. I've seen a Halpern-Meier made from a keychain skewb and it's basically pyraminx size, so you can expect a full-size HM (or Master Pyraminx) to be about twice that big.


You mean eight times bigger, right (l*w*h) ? :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:42 am 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL7WYn_RS68

Approx 15.5cm / 6.1 inch edge



I never minded the size of it. But I'm not a speedcuber, so it never became a factor to me.

However, if I were Uwe - packaging these for sale, I can only imagine how many problems it can cause - especially with the pointy edges. It would just be too awkward to handle/shipping a lot of these at a time.

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:25 pm 
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What if it were a Releaux tetrahedron? I was looking at my Skewb Beachball and there's no reason you couldn't extend that shape just a bit to make it tetrahedral-ish without being so large and pointy.

(At the very least, they could do a Skewb which is colored with a four-color pattern. It would be equivalent, if not as elegant.)


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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:29 pm 
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reeeech wrote:
However, if I were Uwe - packaging these for sale, I can only imagine how many problems it can cause - especially with the pointy edges. It would just be too awkward to handle/shipping a lot of these at a time.


reeeech, I thought you were into those wooden box packing puzzles things. A tetrahedron fits very nicely into a cubic box. Each of the six tetrahedron's edges runs perfectly along the diagonals of the box. Using a 6 inch box would allow for some packing also.

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:35 pm 
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Tony Fisher wrote:
reeeech, I thought you were into those wooden box packing puzzles things. A tetrahedron fits very nicely into a cubic box. Each of the six tetrahedron's edges runs perfectly along the diagonals of the box. Using a 6 inch box would allow for some packing also.



Wooden Burrs - yes. Not much into packing puzzles. :P

However, they may fit nicely that way, but I'm sure the size of the packaging might be bigger than ideal.

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:20 pm 
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There should definetely be a new skewb keychain or a medium sized skewb that is durable.
Meffert's still seems to think of producing the pyracue also. When I look at the picture though, I can see that it is going to be just as big as the Golden Cube if it's made from a usual skewb UNLESS Meffert decided to leave out the snapping mech with the ball bearings. The triangles on the skewb diamond have about 4cm edgelength. If all the plastic with the ball bearings is taken off than they would be smaller. I don't know how it's supposed to be on the pyracue but the little triangle is a regular skewb's corner.
I guess Okamoto uses his own version of the skewb mech, since all his cubes have 5.7 cm edge length and are just awesome. His master pyraminx proved that too.

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:59 pm 
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reeeech wrote:
However, if I were Uwe - packaging these for sale, I can only imagine how many problems it can cause - especially with the pointy edges. It would just be too awkward to handle/shipping a lot of these at a time.

Also consider the size of the mold required for large pieces. The machinery to mold pieces is huge compared to the pieces themselves. Perhaps the mold size required for this exceeds some common threshold and bumps up into requiring a much more expensive injection machine.

Given the size of the Golden cube it seems Meffert is capable of doing some large shapes, but who knows what manufacturing limits might be in play.

Dave

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:05 pm 
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This is just a wild guess, mostly based on the occasional cheap toy that comes in sections not broken from the plastic feed lines through the mold, but I suspect that a common size for plastic molding apparatus is on the order of 4x6" or better. Not sure what the *height* restrictions of that are, and of course in larger pieces you get problems with shrinkage (ie, dimples in large flat surfaces, like you've seen on knockoffs) and you need more and more stuff to get good feed to the pieces.


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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:15 pm 
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...Any comments on the Releaux idea? >_>


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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:31 pm 
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Jared wrote:
...Any comments on the Releaux idea? >_>


One step ahead of you... 8-)


Attachments:
reuleaux skewb tetrahedron (small).jpg
reuleaux skewb tetrahedron (small).jpg [ 46.65 KiB | Viewed 7143 times ]
Reuleaux Skewb Tetrahedron.PDF [486.02 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:36 pm 
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Woot! So if that's sized to a regular Skewb mechanism, how big is it?

(Oh please, please let Uwe see this.)


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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:17 pm 
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Releaux Trajber's looks beautiful! Very nice forms!

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:59 pm 
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Aleksey wrote:
Releaux Trajber's looks beautiful! Very nice forms!

it is not a trajber's octahedron

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:09 pm 
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Ah, of course not. I don't know what I'd been thinking at the time. :oops: It's Halpern-Meier's, of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:52 pm 
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bump

Edit: Limited preview of the Master Pyraminx removed 7/30/09.


Attachments:
Skewb Tetrahedron.jpg
Skewb Tetrahedron.jpg [ 11.08 KiB | Viewed 7418 times ]

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Last edited by Puzzlemaster42 on Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:57 pm 
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Legit on the Master Pyraminx??? I don't care about the other, but that... If it follows Meffert's trend of $42 I will buy it faster than a Nascar on Speed with acid lacing the helmet and silicone lube on the track!


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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:00 pm 
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The HM Pyramid looks great!

The Master Pyraminx not so much. The Realueax shape doesn't fit the Pyraminx layout. :?

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:05 pm 
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EMarx wrote:
The HM Pyramid looks great!

The Master Pyraminx not so much. The Realueax shape doesn't fit the Pyraminx layout. :?



Me niether, but this would be above a v-cube in my list!


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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:07 pm 
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:shock: This makes 3 master pyraminxs within 3 days! But ya the master pyraminx doesn't look so great. Awesome job on the halpern-meier pyramid


Last edited by squabpuzzles on Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:21 pm 
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I think they both look GREAT! :shock:

Although, I am more for the "curvy" tetrahedrons than the realueax shape. realueax tetrahedrons are just too pillowed for my taste.

Amazing work! So, when do we get a video? :P

- Billy


Last edited by lonogod on Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:37 pm 
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great! I specially like the shape of the curved lines in the master piraminx!!


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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
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Not much appreciation for the shape of the Master Pyraminx, but the Halpern-Meyer is fantastic!

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:08 pm 
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Blazemann wrote:
EMarx wrote:
The HM Pyramid looks great!

The Master Pyraminx not so much. The Realueax shape doesn't fit the Pyraminx layout. :?



Me niether, but this would be above a v-cube in my list!

WHAT?! Be happy, this is great news! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:23 pm 
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I think they both look good. I guess when you see 3 master pyraminxs in a row people start to get more picky...

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:35 pm 
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I think that both of these puzzles look great too - but if you're gonna pillow a Pyraminx, make it a Professor Pyraminx! :P

(Just kidding - amazing work!)


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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:58 pm 
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I would rather have a reuleaux master pyraminx, than no master pyraminx.


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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
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philliesrule3690 wrote:
I guess when you see 3 master pyraminxs in a row people start to get more picky...

....and the timing couldn't be better!!! :evil:


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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:00 pm 
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While I do think the HM pyramid looks great, I see absolutely no point in pillowing a master pyraminx. Pillowing was originally used to make pieces even- which is already possible on the Master Pyraminx (even by hand). Also, It is almost spherical in the amount it is pillowed.

If it were to make the Skewb core stronger- Then why not just make a stronger core?

It all just seems terribly inane.

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:40 pm 
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Can't it also be used to make unstable mechanisms more stable? With Mr. Mefferts decision not to make the master pyraminx because it was too unstable, having a stable, albeit pillowed version of the puzzle makes it a better candidate for mass production. Although, the master pyraminx designed by olz also looks very good, and if I had the choice, I would take the one designed by olz, because I like the standard tetrahedron shape better.


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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:51 pm 
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I've an idea for a stronger Mini Skewb core. Instead of using a spider, you can use a tetrahedron with very short legs (arms? )extending off the tips. This type of mech is stronger and more stable as well. Also to achieve a void skewb you can use a hollow Tetrahedron frame (or maybe not. I never really looked into the Void Skewb mech type thing.) Also, how is the Master Pyraminx not stable? If the little tetrahedron tips were made like a Pyraminx, then the puzzle would be pretty stable.

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:01 pm 
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I'm not entirely certain, but I believe it was unstable in that when you turn an edge, some of the pieces would overhang too far, and the puzzle would be more likely to fall apart, or pieces would snap. That's just my take on t, as I wasn't around when the whole deal with the mechanism being too unstable first came up.


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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:59 am 
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Near wrote:
I'm not entirely certain, but I believe it was unstable in that when you turn an edge, some of the pieces would overhang too far, and the puzzle would be more likely to fall apart, or pieces would snap. That's just my take on t, as I wasn't around when the whole deal with the mechanism being too unstable first came up.


The mechanism is stable. When Mr. Meffert said "Unstable and Unweildy" he meant "Weak Mini Skewb Core"


And that HM Pyramid appears to be a Meffert Prototype, Judging by the Tile Stickers, and less pointy tips compared to cast Realueax puzzles. Injection molding needs smoother tips.

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:42 pm 
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why was the picture of the master pyraminx removed?? :shock:


Does that mean we will see it soon? Hopefully...


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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:50 pm 
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If we see that puzzle soon that may come up on my list even more then the gigaminx (dought it though =P)

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 Post subject: Re: Uwe Meffert's decision not to make......
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:07 pm 
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Location: SF Bay Area.
I think the pyraminx pic was removed for the opposite reason..


Hint: Twitter.

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